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Monday, 12 June 2006

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Muki StoneHall

Good idea.That practice should be laid to rest once and for all.But is that the greatest concern of our female MPs.Is enjoying sex really their greatest problem.
Why not think of something better for the girl child?
Now look at this.Somebody who practises FGM should be given a life jail term!! What about a girl who murders a fellow school mate? Ten life terms I guess!
StoneHall

Tita Mofaw

It is their culture so we should leave it like that.If one of the reasons why homosexaulity is outlawed is because 'African culture' as some people like to say forbids it (and we seem to be so kin in supporting culture-what ever it is) then we should respect the culture of the Ejaghan and Boki people.
Na culture ohhhhhhhhhh.

Reports from China

"It would be recalled that parliament threw out another private member's bill on FGM tabled by Hon. Joseph Mbah Ndam two years ago."
I don't see how this bill can be passed when the House Speaker is from an area where this act is happily practised.
As a matter of fact, this FGM is terrible to think about because as the Hon lady puts it, women should have the right to enjoy sex. Not only women, but men too suffer from this act because it would be awful to be having sex with a lady who doesn't feel the sweetness of it. Tita Mofaw how would you feel if you were having sex with a lady and she laid on the bed like a log of wood? (i hope Tita is a man) That aside the risks that accompany the act is what borders me.
On behalf of those who don't cherish this act, i pray that this Cavayege of a man should not throw it out this time.

J.P

Do such practices really take place in today's society? That's horrible. How could somebody be deprived of such a pleasure for life?

I remember one funny story a guy used to stupidly make jokes out of. He said there was this girl that was mutilated and you could get on her the hardest you could, but she was busy killing mosquitoes on the wall or reading a magazine. When he was over, the girl asked absent-mindedly if he was done. Going by this, she was not even concerned with all what the guy was strugglying and sweating to do. What a sad culture? Lets protect the rights of women. Women should not be treated as logs of wood as someone earlier pointed out.

Tita Mofaw

I get you china!
I was just thinking that it is culture and we should protect culture (because it seems to me that we are so confused about this thing called culture).

Just wait and see when another hot topic comes up,peopele would try to defend an oppressive practice by saying it is African culture.I am merely playing the culture card.

Henry Alex

Female prostitutes in in the cheerleading Cameroonised Parliament,there are fundamental matters to bicker upon.Not sexual pleasures and sexual preachings.No doubt u are sexual toys to the male cheerleader paliamentarians.Hahaha,now that your clitories are inorder,u are really enjoying sex in our glass house hotels.'We have a right to enjoy sex just like men'Wow,Sexuality bills,prostitution bills,polyandry bills,sexual pleasure bills,clitory bill,etc.Nice parliament,keep it up.

JP
Nobody is taking the right of women away,they are the one violating their right.From tetimony from one of the sexually disatisfied "mutltilator",the mother lured her to doing that either voluntarily or forcefully.Thus,they should rather caution female parents than asking for respect and right of females.

Cheboy

Let these women put a strong case against female circumition. When they caption it as their right to enjoy sex, it slightly deviates from a humane course. An abotion of female circumcition in all parts of Cameroon will be a great step towards civilisation.

Cheboy

Let these women put a strong case against female circumcition. When they caption it as their right to enjoy sex, it slightly deviates from a humane course. An abolition of female circumcition in all parts of Cameroon will be a great step towards civilisation.

Tayong

Foolishness
Failed loud-mouthed, opinionated bigot masquerading as parliamentarian. Is that all you can do for the Mamfe people ? Enjoy sex,blablabla... Where were you when Mbah Ndam tabled a bill in the parliament to this effect that was thrown out like all others? Shameless lady criss crossing the country for women to enjoy sex while Mamfe laguishes in abject remoteness and backwardness. How I wish I met you while in Cameroon.

Tayong

Big Joe

Don't you guys know it is morally wrong in some culture for a woman to show any sign of excitement during the act?. She maybe mistaken for a prostitute.

m2d

Please I ask any of you who has the time to click on the links below (or copy and paste) and get some hard facts about FGM (female genital mutilation). This is not a joking matter

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/

http://www.colorado.edu/journals/standards/V7N2/EDITORIAL/edfgm.html

http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/femgen/fgm1.htm


Tayong

m2d
What are you insinuating man/lady? Who says the practice is OK? People are simply annoyed with a fagot that has never done anything to the people who sent her to the parliament(if at all they sent her) but sees an opportunity to make noise over women enjoying sex.Is it when women enjoy sex that the nightmarish roads of Mamfe will be arranged? Or is it by women enjoying sex that will bring development to Mamfe?

Come on lady. There is already an NGO in Cameroon fighting against this thing.Mbah Ndam tabled a bill in the parliament to stop this practice. This sex enjoyment campaigner was there but couldnt say a thing. Now she comes out to say rubbish. Anyway someone even said it maybe her area of expertise .

Tayong

Edwin

The crying lady probable did not know what was lying there between the legs of the women shouting out for enjoyable sex. I will like to get a confirmation that those MPs had undergone the “so called” FGM. If not then what was stopping them from enjoying sex? The clitoris “only contribute” to sex enjoyment, it does not determine it.
I have had sex with 2 women that have been circumcised and a couple that have had no circumcision. Personally sex was more enjoyable with the circumcised women, the only difficulty with them was not with how they felt physically but how they felt mentally. One of them felt very OK with her body, the other was initially shy and very uncomfortable with me looking at her vagina but when I let her knew her vagina was OK, the cleanest and nicest I have seen, she felt OK. I explain to her that FGM was not the worst thing that has happened to her as “some Western Foreigners” wanted her and other Africans to believe. I re-assured her that her body was only as beautiful as she wanted it to be and went further to point to her that the so called Designer Vagina, Vaginal Rejuvenation or Female Intimate Surgery were all female circumcision or Female Genital Mutilation as many in the West will like us to call it making it sound as horrible as possible. Did you know that Vaginal Surgery is the fastest growing area of cosmetic surgery? Look at the WHO definition of FGM and tell me what differentiates it from Vaginal Rejuvenation as described here http://www.wellnesskliniek.com/E_designer_vagina.htm The only difference is who is performing it and on who it’s perform. If it’s performed by a white person on a white woman it’s not FGM, it’s cosmetic surgery, anything out of that is FGM and must be totally condemned.

Must women will agree with this woman who had Vaginal rejuvenation:
"My vagina had that 'flippy-floppy' feeling. I could barely feel anything. Sex was just not enjoyable." For some of these women, Vaginal rejuvenation (FGM?) is the only answer.
The question is if it’s as bad and dangerous as we are made to believe, how can a woman force her daughter to it? Are there women so blind with culture that they will risk infecting their own children? How come these women on whom it’s already been performed are still alive and healthy to recommend it to their children if it’s as dangerous as we are made to believe?
The simple point or solution is; if it’s a dangerous because of infections, then it should be performed in hospitals. No amount of punishment will kill a people’s culture, modernisation or developmental/ scientific incorporation can be the answer, not punishment. Take the practice away from local untrained women and give it to well train surgeons.

EDWIN

Fritzane Kiki Hong Kong


It is true girls in many countries want to enjoy sex but it should not be as a matter of force.Sex shouldn't be a compulsory thing nor a 'must' that a girl should cry for sexual pleasures in the process.These prostitutes of parliamentarians should instead look for means to curb the high rate of prostitution plaguing our towns and cities than to encourage these prostitutes to go in for sweet sex!!

Our African continent should not be taken for European ones.If we want to compare in all the aspects of western culture then we have a long way to go.The rate of HIV Aids in Cameroon is alarming.Girls should be encourage to use condoms than ask them to expose their unsafe viginals organs in public to spread this pandermic.There are more key issues to channel for discussion at the parliament than Sexual intercourse nor excitement in sex.

Fritzane Kiki
Hong Kong

ngwa fru

akwarah!ashawooh! talk seh for cut tam no fine no be palava enjoy!

Jackson Nanje

It is quite disturbing for a member of parliament who has graciously introduced a bill that will eradicate suffering just to have people, ignorant enough to cancel out this good bill because there are no roads leading to Mamfe. Must there be roads or other competing development in this area first in order for the MP to introhisduce t bill? We sometimes push our society backward because of our ability to procrastinate or postpone that which is equally important, thinking that this bill takes precedence over the other. What if government has already earmarked some funds for the tarring of Mamfe roads in 2007? According to Mr. Tayong here above, the bill on FGM must wait until the roads are tarred in 2007. Quite ridiculous!

Also, as M2D suggested, it is the culture of those areas of our society cited in the text; therefore, we should leave it alone. Extremely frightful to believe that there are individuals, in this modern world, who will still put a woman's health and safety in the hands of cultural witch hunts, whose purpose pale in significance with the issues brought forthwith. You mean, a woman who stands the risk of being infected with aids, not get satisfaction during sex....something you get everytime you make love to a woman, should live with the vails of rudimentary culture? I can't believe you. May be your sister should go through this ordeal and come and explain things to you. This way, this sad and grotesque practice, which you say is okay.

Jackson Nanje

Tita Mofaw

Did I not mention it above?
Hear them shouting at the top of their voices that it is African culture. What do you mean by African culture? I come from Cameroon,in the North West Province which is at the heart of Africa but we don't have such a culture.The naughty boy in the house mukete is from the South West,also at the heart of Africa but they don't have that kind of culture where the woman's organ is chopped off with a cutlass.What kind of African culture are you talking about.

Just say it is the culture of a group of people some where in Cameroon who still beleive that the sexaulity of women should be controlled by men.

Some are even comparing it with other practices in the west.Don't be so stupid to make such a comparison because even women or men in western countries who opt for sex reassignement surgey do so voluntarily and it does not affect their sexaulity as it does to women whose vagina are butchered with a cutlass.

Whereas in western countries, people who think that their biological sex does not represent who they are (internally) opt for such an operation-usually when they are adult. Our case is different because parents force their girl children (who are so powerless to decide what to do) to have their clitories chopped off.

God forbid! if I had a sister from that part of the country and somebody did that to her, I would plug off his eyes and ears.

Edwin

Mr Tita Mofaw, (PLEASE keep emotions and anger aside and let ideas flow) are you saying that this practice is bad because a "cutlass or machete is used to chop off a woman's vagina"? If that is the case, then will you endorsed "female circumcision" done in a hospital by a trained surgeon with surgical instruments? Look at the WHO definition of FGM and let me know if you agree with it.
In most parts of the Africa, female circumcision involves the removal of only a small sheath (the prepuce) extending from the clitoris. In other parts of Africa, it may involve the removal of other parts, just like in male circumcision. The reasons just like in the case of male circumcision may vary.
Did you also say the practice differs with that practiced in the West because in the West it's adults doing it voluntarily? Will you thus endorsed it if it's done voluntarily by adults in Africans? On the case of adults or children, I hope you did have a choice on your own circumcision as a boy. What of a TOTAL BAN on all sorts of circumcisions to ALL THE CHILDREN (BOYS AND GIRLS) so that they can grow up and decide for themselves IF they want it, HOW they want it and WHO to do it?
For your information Sir, female circumcision is done by women on women /girls, the talk about men imposing it on women is part of the Western indoctrination and means of portraying the African man as the suppressors of women.
I am certain that you’ve never meet or talk to a circumcised woman or someone from a region where its practiced to really know how it’s done and why it’s done but like most of our brothers and sisters you are calling it Barbaric just like the woman calling for life imprisonment for those practicing it. Don’t you think male circumcision is also barbaric?
Any of the “so called cultural practices” that that are not endorsed by western countries should be ban.
PLEASE brother, be objective rather then emotional
EDWIN

Tita Mofaw

I like your response Mr. Edwin and sincerely the reason why I am responding to you is because you seem to have a logical arguement why you think female circumsision is not a problem.

Seriously,I onced had thesame views like you about this practice-
First I blame the west for problematising a practice that seems to be alright for the people,also I equated it to male circumsision,and finally, I claimed that it is thesame to westerners who carry out sex reassignment surgery.

To respond to your mail, I would start by agreeing with some points that you made above on some conditional terms:
If children are allowed to make the decision wether they want circumssioin or not when they grow up it would be a good idea.Reason-it is imporatnt to let people have a say to any form of surgery that might affect their body severely especially if such a process cannot be reversed in the long run.

If female circumssion is done in hospitals in a professional way and if women are allowed to make that decision once they are adult then it MIGHT be OK.Only at this point can you compare it with sex reassignment surgey in the west.

The reason why I don't even want you to comapre FC and MC is because men and women are affected in completely different ways and the reasons why both circumsissions are done are very different.Traditionally,most socieities like the Hausa practiced male circumsission as a rite of passage for young boys into manhood whereas women in many societies like Kenya,Sudan, Egypt and even in Manyu division did so to control the sexaulity of women-that is to say, so that women should be faithful to their men because by cutting their clitories they lost all the pleasure that comes with sex.And as such they only have sex with their husband and do so strictly for procreation.

The reason for clitoridectomy tells us that men are the beneficiaries not women.Why? I cannot go into all the details but I think it is enough to say our socieites are too patriachal(male domination). Don't you see that in all African socieities that are matrilineal or which are completely dominated by women practices like clitoridectomy and polygamy are abscent?

The reason why you think women are the ones doing the cutting to their daughters is because you expect men to do it before you would beleive they are guilty.No!Men decide what culture is.Actually,they invent culture because of their higher position in society and for that reason they make the norms and rules to suit them.Take polygamy for example (or moslem women who have to cover their faces even under very high temperatures).If women had the power to invent culture or have a say in the process, polygamy would have meant one woman getting married to 20 men.Unfortunately it is the opposite.Think of several other examples: the best part of a chicken can only be eaten by men or the head of the house who is never a woman,the chiefs are always men and in the NW for example where fons are highly respected women are expected to do even more-bow down when a fon is passing.Why shouldn't both men and women bow down? or why can't there be a fon who is a woman so that men should bow down infront of her? We ofcourse take it for granted that it cannot be because it is cultural.Nonsense! who made that culture? It wasn't God. Where did it come from? Men continously fabricate stuffs to suit their greed.

Do you know what happens to mother's whose daughters are not circumcissed? They are blamed as bad mothers.Secondly they do it because they want their daughters to get married.Reason being that if they are not circumcised most of the boys would consider them prostitutes and thereby unfit to be wives.

I would therefore only support the idea of grown up women opting for clitoredectomy if and only if they are leaving in socieities where nobody is preasurising them to do it.This is because if the practice is not completely banned,socieites which claim it is their culture would make life difficult for women who choose not to do it thereby forcing them to do it as the only way to be acepted socially.

Don't try to make such arguments that you slept with a woman who is circumcissed and she told you that she is enjoying sex.How do you know if she was simply saying that to please you or if she was just enjoying the perfume on your body? How could she tell if the pleasure was coming from the sex or not since she had never known what it is like to have sex with her clitoridectomy intact.

And for your information,it is not only a small part which is cut.The entire clitoris is removed (reason why it is called clitoridectomy) and in more severe cases like in North Africa-sudan and egypt the clitoris and the connecting parts are butchered and part of the opening is stitched with a needle making it very painful just to pass out urine.For what? so that man pikin dem go the chop like pan only dem dem.

EDWIN

Thank you man for joining the unslaught agints African men and African culture. I will very much love to know your stand on homusexuallity and other aspects of Human right. I think the idea of African men supressing women and feeling superio to them is too big and wide a topic for us to start looking at it now.

I must admit I am relieve you “MAY” consider FC under certain conditions. Well, I could very much understand you if you've also said you are from a region where this practice is carried out rather than sitting in Western country and talking like most of our Western friends who condem anything that is not practice in the west.

The terminology you are using is just not far away from that which is being used by “Westerners” to describe Male circumcission. Go to www.yahoo.com and search for doct aga Circumcission and let me know if their description fits Male circumcission as you know it or as it was done on you. My brother, look at the pictures they have of circuncised men and you'll understand what I'm saying.
For your information, I am neither FOR or AGINTS female circumcission. I just want the west to let peopl live their lives the way they want. Be it women covering their faces in Afganistan of Manyo people circumcising their daughters.

God Bless you

EDWIN

edwin

Sorry,

I said search yahoo or and other search machine for; "doctors againts circumcision". You may also look for "mothers againts circumcision". Look for immages of male circumcission.

I am a North Westerner (Cameroonian) and used to take the same stand like you but my contact with the said lady change "MANY" things. Listen to people who have "nothing to gain" not women working for anti-circumcission organisations or women crying out for political asylum.

Human rights, Human Rights and all the talks about democracy are pushing some of us to forget "who we really are". Is it human right for somebody to be standing under the hot sun, cold rain or snow gaurding another human being?

Have to go now.

Edwin

Tita Mofaw

You seem to be sayiong something else now.I am sure you are not claiming that Rose Abunaw is from the west.If you say you are from the NW, then what makes you think you are closer to the Manyu people than me?

See what you are writing

"Well, I could very much understand you if you've also said you are from a region where this practice is carried out rather than sitting in Western country and talking like most of our Western friends who condem anything that is not practice in the west".

What makes you think that I am from the west? So you think that anything that comes from the west is bad and we we should resist it?

Waked up guy! The west is advanced today because they copy what is good from other places and try to incorporate it to their system.And if we don't learn to copy what is good from other people we would never progress in anywhere.If somebody comes from the west today and tell me that please don't drink water from that river because you will fall ill and I realise later on that he is always healthy and does not drink the same water with me who is sick all the time ,I would politely asked him which source of water is good and why.It would be stupid for me to say shut up because you are a white man.

By the way, I thought you were arguing that female circumssion is good but now you are saying you are neither for nor against it.I would like to tell you my opinion about homosexuality but right now I don't really know where the discussion is leading because you seem to be mixing up concrete issues with your anger for the West.

For what ever reason that you hate the west, let me warn you that you should be careful not to put all the blames for your misfortune on somebody.They might be guilty of so many things but by the end of the day they are not so different from your brother or sister next door.See what happened in Rwanda and Burundi! I am very sure you are the kind of person who would say the West is responsible. (In some sense they might be) but by the end of the day they did not asked Hutus and tutsis to slaughter each other with machetes.

Look at Cameroon for example,We might want to blame France and la republic for all the misery in southern Cameroon but at the end of the day Chirac or Paul Biya are not the ones calling some people kom no go or 99 senses etc etc.They are not the ones collecting money from people at every check point,stealing from people even in churches.I am sure you would say they have rendered us poor and by so doing have pushed us to the wall.Go to other countries like Benin and Botswana you would find people in conditions which are much more miserable than ours but they are still decent people and have respect for each other.

Some people on this forum are even singing songs about war.France or England has not asked you to go to War but eventually when you forced yourself into war and you start killing each other like animals in the wild, some people would say Europe or America.

C,mmon guy what do you want to say about homosexuality? I hope you won't start quoting me the bible while claiming at the same time that you hate the west.Remember that it is their bible you are reading and probably their God that you are serving.I hope also that you won't dare to tell me that it is African culture because as is the case with female circumsission, I earlier explained that I come from the NW province of Cameroon (in the heart of Africa) and we don't know any culture like that.Make sure if you want to support or reject homosexaulity you should have a moral ground and not quoting bibles or telling me about culture because there is no such thing as a homogenous and unified culture.
OK mr. Edwin

Watesih

More female reproductive organs intact means more sex,a lot of enjoyment,many more aids patients.We know our Honourable Lady has constructed new hospitals across the country to take care of all this people.She is also financing the research into a cure for the treatment of this disease.The debate about enjoying sex or not is uncalled for now in Cameroon.How can you even enjoy sex with an empty stomach? This act of circumcision should even be extended to the whole country to curtail women`s appetite.A higher appetite means a woman has a long list of those to sooth this feeling.The little excitement left after circumcision is good enough for one man.This is another goodway to fight aids.
The simple fact of discussing sexual enjoyment in public gives the impression to younger people that sex is primodial now.MPs
from constituencies where this is practised
should rather go back to their people and start educating them through seminars,rather than jump to national TV and radio and start making salacious declarations about sexual bliss.
The problem now is not that of culture,but ethics.We must appeal to the moral intergrity of our people for them to start shunning these practices.An MP can become a hero over night if he or she is capable of bringing his people to shun some type of obnoxious behaviour.By insisting on sexual bliss,we know people have embraced other uncouth behavioural patterns.It is in this light that 'Exchangism' has become another norm in society.People have clubs where couples go to play a sort of 'taste my own,i taste your own'.What do we expect from such a scenario,than a total spill over of diseases ,and citizens who are just walking shadows.
Lasttime,these same leaders in our country shouted down everybody who tried to show Homosexuality as a practice of the depraved in our society.So what has suddenly happened that they want to enjoy themselves to the fullest when it comes to sex? Do they know that by yearning for more sexual freedom ,they are confirming what the citizens have been accusing them of? What is the relationship between total sexual bliss and economic development? So many questions isn`t it,but one thing is certain that we don`t have that society now to start pretending to fantasize about sex.

mn

i can't believe this thing still hasn't been outlawed in c'roon! it shouldn't just be the women backing FGM's abolition.

RACHEL HALE

I am so amazed that cameroon is thinking of implementing a ban on FGM. No matter how long it takes for the law to be enforce all that matters is that women are protected from harmful practices. Reading from above opinions some people are worried that we are merely following western cultures. If FGM was to be banned because of the procedure rather than the consequence i would support to keep the culture. But why should we keep a culture that doesnot benefit anyone? Instead what people gain is an everlasing pain and loss of dignity. I pray that some day the whole of cameroon penal code will be revised and issues like rape and family laws will be changed in favour of equal rights to women.

Fritzane Kiki Hong Kong


Rachel,
Thanks for your piece.Atleast now we are hearing from the 'horse's mouth' which is more reliable.Ladies and other feminine headliners should comment about the impact of this act which derives them from human pleasures for life.I can feel what sort of pain girls and women undergo in the process and for the rest of their life.Hopefully the parliamentary deliberation should also be based on the protection of women to STD's,HIV and other sexually trasmitable diseases to curb the high rate of the transimmssion in Cameroon.

Fritzane Kiki
Hong Kong

viagra online

True that, and not just the women, the men as well, how many women fake their orgasm, I think is a little unfair saying that just the women deserves the orgasm.

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