'Pentecostals Worship Disorder To Dupe Christians'

Interviewed By Namondo Mbonde & Christelle Megne (UB Journalism Student On Internship)

Disorder is the first sign that God is not present there. When they shout, they provoke the head more than the heart. This makes people to go hysterical and emotional, because the head is not in order.

The preachers need the head to be in disorder, to be able to tap the economic resources of their Christians; that is part of the Pentecostal strategy; we don't do that in the Catholic Church...

The Post: What do you know about the proliferation of churches as a Catholic Priest?
Rev. Fr. Nkea: The documents of clarification of the Vatican Church bring out the difference between the Church and the ecclesial community.

Proliferation of churches is a way of speaking. From the time that Christ founded the Church right up to the time of revolution, there was only one Church, the Catholic Church. So when we are talking about Church, dogmatically speaking, we are referring to the Catholic Church.

Then we talk about the sister Churches, referring to the Churches that broke off from the main Church, the Catholic Church. Ecclesial communities are supposed to be groups of believers who yoke themselves together for whatever motives; they are not churches.

Why, would you say, Christians leave the main Churches to these ecclesial communities?
 

There are two fundamental reasons; first and foremost, they have never really understood their doctrine, they had never been committed Christians who really understood the teachings of the Church. Because of the numbers we have in our Church, we don't give what I call personal attention to our Christians and because of that, their faith is not deepened enough and then they fall away easily.

Secondly, it is the search of phenomena. You see, with the modern times and the work of the devil, the world is becoming stronger; people want to see things happen; they want to see the Buea Mountain transferred to Bamenda and the sea from Limbe to Buea. Because the Pentecostal churches start bringing in hysterical experiences, people go there as an easy solution to their problems.

They have always understood God as a button you press and what you want happens. They tell them, 'come, phenomena happens here; throw your stick and walk; God is the button, press it and He will do what you want.' That is not what the Catholic Church teaches.

Fundamentally, the prayer Christ taught His disciples was, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven." The Catholic Church maintains and will maintain it forever. Let God's will be done; if my legs are going to be cut forever let them be, if that is what God wants. But the ecclesial communities tell the people that no, if your legs are cut and you want them to grow again, come, and press this button; call God and your legs will grow. So your will, not God's will, is what people want and they go for that. The main reason is the search for phenomena and lack of profound faith.

What would you say is the causes of this proliferation?

With the liberalisation of Freedom of Association there is no control. All DO's have the right to stamp churches that begin as NGO's. Nobody controls the content of their preaching. This is religious criminality, because scandalous things happen in some of them. Because we are going through hard times, economically, socially and otherwise, I will not fear to tell you that the Church is a very lucrative business.

If you really want to get rich without effort, open up a Church and you will get a lot of money. Because people are afraid to die and there is a lot of evil, people steal a lot of money; they want to cover up themselves and bring money to the Church as a means to bribe God. Life is now, a bargain across the counter and relationship with God has been narrowed down to a bargain. Nigerians have understood this very well. Anyone who wants the easy way out, starts a Church and so most of those who have started these small communities are not for Christian but economic motives.

Most Pentecostals claim the main churches don't have the Holy Spirit and do not worship God in spirit.

It is a way of speaking; I will say they don't understand. When Jesus founded the Church He said to the Apostles, "go ye therefore into the world, preach and baptise in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit". The Holy Spirit belongs to the Church; it is the gift of Christ to the Church.

When they say the Holy Spirit does not exist in the Church, they mean that we don't shout and fall in the Catholic Church. That is not the Holy Spirit; it is phenomena, spiritual phenomena. The Holy Spirit, according the Gospel of John, is like a wind. It blows wherever it wants. The only sign to tell you that the Holy Spirit is in the Catholic Church is that it has not collapsed.

The claim is that the Holy Spirit came during Pentecost and there was shouting, singing and praying.

That is a misinterpretation of the Acts of the Apostles. The Holy Spirit came down on the Apostles and on the Blessed Virgin Mary in tongues of fire at Pentecost. The Apostles then went out to preach. Peter, who was the head of the Apostles, led the delegation.

They preached in their language and the people understood in their different languages. There was no shouting, falling and crying. The Holy Spirit does not bring disorder, but order and this is why when treating with it, we should be very careful to give the Holy Spirit a chance. Let the Spirit lead you, not you leading the Spirit.

What do you think about their own method of worship?

The Catholic Church has always insisted that we worship God in spirit and in truth and we worship the Lord in order and discipline. The method of worship in the Catholic Church is universal. I fly to Switzerland.

That is a place to which I've never been before. On arrival, I vest, kiss the alter and I say, 'in the name of the Father and the whole Church answers.' I take the Lectionary and read; it is the same thing I would have read in Kom, Fontem etc. I bless them and they respond.

The same thing happens when I go to Japan or anywhere else in the world. This universality of the Church is a sign of God's presence. God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit exist in harmony and order. But the Pentecostals worship in disorder. Disorder is the first sign that God is not present there.

When they shout, they provoke the head more than the heart. This makes people to go hysterical and emotional, because the head is not in order. The preachers need the head to be in disorder, to be able to tap the economic resources of their Christians; that is part of the Pentecostal strategy; we don't do that in the Catholic Church.

How can the proliferation of Churches be curbed?

There should be rigid control on the opening of Churches. For example, in the days of Ahidjo, there were few Churches because of this control. But with the freedom to create associations, the administrators sign whatever is presented to them. The content of their preaching is not controlled or checked.

This as a form of religious criminality. They should be arrested; this is not the way you treat citizens of a country, parade them naked in public in the name of religion. So if the government tolerates things like that, I will say the devil is slowly taking over; that's no church, that's no religion.

So what can the government do then?

The government should have technical advisers on religious matters and check the content of the teachings of various churches and preachers, before authorising them to operate and if the content of their preaching is offensive to morals, it should not be allowed.

From the way things are going could Cameroon one day have a situation where one church will be fighting another?

You see, with regards to Nigeria and their religious conflicts, it is mostly Muslims and Christians fighting and burning down Churches and Mosques, and here, I would say that we should give credit to where it is due. Ahidjo helped this country. He was very hard against the Muslims who wanted him to turn Cameroon into an Islamic state.

That's the man who gave subvention and did his best to help the Catholic Mission. Objectively, he got a man like Bernard Fonlon, an ex-seminarian into his cabinet. And in that way, he managed the differences between religions. The Muslims who thought that they had the power, he clipped their wings and the Christians who thought they were underdogs, he gave them a bit of status.

He made the Islamic feast a public holiday and the Christian feast a holiday too for the whole country. Christians will never go to any religious war, because it is an economic war. If the preachers can easily extort money from the people, there will be no war.

When you, a Priest is referred to as a sinner and unbeliever, because you are not "Born-Again", how do you take it?

I am a sinner, begging for God's mercy to make me pure; but I'm not an unbeliever. If that Pastor is not a sinner, he will be among the angels and saints in Heaven. John tells us in his First Letter, that anyone who says he has no sin is a liar. The act of proclaiming that you have no sin is sin of pride.

Some Pentecostals claim that they received healing after prayers, what do you have to say about this?

Priests and Pastors are instruments God uses to perform miracles. All thanks should be given to God when someone receives healing through prayers and not to a Pastor. Those who are seeking for phenomena go to places where miracles are advertised. Christ never advertised miracles.

He healed the people and told them to keep it secret. If these Pastors claim they heal in God's name, where do they get their powers from, because their ordination does not have an Apostolic lineage. They only heal through charism, meaning the Holy Spirit can use anybody to heal.

Some Pentecostals claim they left the main church because Priests twist the truth…

It is not true, because the Catholic Church has a Missal; the whole Bible has been split into weekdays. I have no right to choose what I want to read. What I read in the church this morning is what the Pope reads in Rome; what the Archbishop reads in Washington; it is what everybody would read in the Catholic Church today. We go through the whole Bible. I can never choose a text.

Coming to preaching, quote me one Priest who has ever preached in the church that adultery is good, fornication is good but hide it let them not see; who has said the country is so tough, embezzle your own small money and hide it, let them not see? It is a way of speaking. One of the Christians said to me, "I was a member of St. Jude, but I realised it is a society because they call it Saint Jude Society, so I left". That's what I call ignorance. When they leave the Catholic Church, they have all kinds of reasons to give.
   

I will quote you an example when the Bishop sent Father Richard to Rome to me on a wheel chair to be taken to the hospital. Worried about the doctor's remark of no possible treatment, I walked out and I met a white lady on a bridge. She preached to me and told me God could solve all problems.

I pointed to her the tomb of St. Peter's Basilica and she told me she had her cousin, a Priest, who comes every weekend to sleep with prostitutes because I told her I could not change my faith. She said it was hypocrisy, what she didn't like about the Catholics. I said, "Madam, God has sent you to me today, the Holy Spirit is alive.

I was in the Vatican yesterday and this kind of issue came up. And they swore to us in the Vatican that it does not happen. So, give me your cousin's name and his parish. I promise you by tomorrow, he would be out of the Priesthood. She said, "Well, I can't give you because Jesus said…" I became hostile because she played over and over.

I threatened to take her to the police and open an investigation. She said she was very sorry and that just like Christ was using parables to teach, she was also using this example to teach. So I said to her, you are the hypocrite, fall on your knees and repent. You use lies to teach truth. I told her to leave and she took off like a jet.

What advice can you give to your Christians?

I will advise Christians that in case of any problem, they should see a Priest for spiritual direction, rather than visiting 'Ngambe' houses in the name of church.We have advised all our Christians to join Apostolic groups, like the Saint Jude's Society, Catholic Men's Association, and Catholic Women's Association.

In those groups, they study the Bible. They have meetings and retreats, and in that way, their faith grows in that group. I cannot organise a group for the whole of Molyko Catholic Church, but I can organise a retreat for Catholic Men's Association. That's the way we reach out to our Christians.

It is said that most of the people who go to Pentecostal churches have been disappointed in one way or the other.
 

Yes, they go around as I said, searching for phenomena. You see, 99.9 percent of these people have met frustration. A woman wants a child at all cost; whether her fallopian tubes are in order or not, the Pastor tells her that she would have a child and she goes round praying and praying.

She leaves the Catholic church because she has not got a child there, she goes to another church and they keep praying and praying, divorces with the husband. So we don't know now, whether the Pastor will mix the child in water and give her to drink, now that she has left the husband.

We have told our Christians that when they meet frustration, go and seek spiritual direction. If you have lost your job, you are a prostitute and want to convert, go for spiritual direction. The Priest would advice on what to do.

But since our Christians want the easy way out, as soon as they get blocked, they say come, we know a Pastor who would lay hands on you and your problems would be solved. A Christian stands in front of me and says "suffering is not my lot, is not my portion". I say whose portion is it?

He says, 'God did not make me to suffer; suffering comes from the devil' and I ask, Jesus' own suffering came from where? So you see, it's all misconceived theology. If you have lost your job and you are becoming frustrated, go for spiritual direction, the Priest will tell you what to do.

These churches are now like "ngambe houses". You have a problem… your friend tells you come, I know a "ngambe house" called 'Church of Liberty' where they can solve that problem and you follow. It is unfortunate.

Comments

[Ma Mary]

FADA, careful. You are treading on thin ice. RCC has a rich, often dirty history. You may just be starting a firestorm. Good luck handling the reactions.

[Henry Alex]

Thanks Father

[Chief Whip]

Ma Mary, I have never differed with you, not on a single of all your write-ups on this blog, but I beg to differ on this one. The clergy man has spoken very wisely and has spoken nothing but the truth. True, the RCC has a dirty history, a very stinking one for that matter, but there can be no denying of the fact that there are deep-seated ill-motives and criminality in the so-called pentecostal churches. For those who call God's name without veneration or reverence the same holy ghost fire they invoke will turn around and consume them.

If you ask me, I will say the pentecostal churches should be seriously strutinised and their activities checked.

[Mbu.B]

Insightful! Father, I have often wondered about this same proliferation, in fact, this business from Nigeria.I really do agree with a good load of what you say.

Father you may also want to check Mathew 7:3-5.

However it is said; there`s no perfect church, but there is a perfect God. Salvation boils down to a very personal thing.

[Ngwese]

Congratulations Father Nkea. What an eloquent presentation? The lucrative activities is what is going on between CBC and Belo Field which has resulted in lost of many lives on both sides. Prof. Foumum of the Organic Chemistry Department of the University of Yaounde I has amased a great fortune from the poor through this way.
Through Father Nkea, I have once more come to notice the untapped human resources in Cameroon and yet we are ruled by mediocrity driving our beloves Nation towards extinction.

Mr.MbuB, I am sure you never read and understood the interview before jumping to quote Mathew 7:3-5 which contents is exactly what Rev Nkea has clarified in his interview.

More grease to your elbows and we wish to read more of intelegent and wish people like Rev. Nkea

[Mona]

Father Please Say The Truth!!
I am visibly stunged by what this Fada is saying.Pentecostal Churches are going and tredding on the right path.They put the Bible and Christ paramount in all they are doing.Why does this anger some of our Big Churches?
Fada,when you pray and never teach your Christians how to pray is it nice?
The Pentecostal Churches have nothing against the RCC and the others.Why is it that the RCC AND the Others are stepping on the toes of the Pentecostal Churches?
Let me ask Fada,you said Christ never advertised Miracles,could you please read Mark 5:19.For every Good thing that God does, calls for an open testimony.Every good Worship is followed by a testimony,so that People should see and know God is alife.That His Powers Dominate the Earth.Above all, he is the God of yesterday,today and tomorrow.
The time had passed when Christians in some of the Big Churches were being decieved.God is opening the eyes of men to see beyond.
Christ said,'He who is not with us,is against us'.Where do you belong to Fada?
Give your Christians Christ's doctrines,as the Pentecostals do,and not Church Doctrines as the Catholic Church does.
Or else,let's get into a big Contest like Elijah did with The Prophets of Baal.Are sure to win Fada? You won't,because you pray calling Holy Mary,when Pentecostals call on Jesus Christ.
Finally we are living in the last days.He who has ears let him hear so Christ said.Get your FREEDOM from Christ alone.Jn.8:31-33.
God open the eyes of some our Fathers,Pastors,christians and others to know your truth.Only the truth shall set them free.Let your face shine on them in Jesus' name I HAD PRAYED..
AMEN!!
[email protected]

[GEORGE]

No church, like any organisation is perfect. They all have their loop holes. The catholic church has very great NOVENAs that christian can follow in case of problems or fustrations and get healing but the priest are often too busy with "church business" and have very little time for christians. Where as the church militant is suppose to be the main church business of the church but since money making is the main business of the church too bad, in addition some of the sordid things priests do are the main reason why chrstians leave the catholic church. If a christain come for guidiance from a priest and find the priest asking her out or find the priest is having dirty deals with female chirstians, no matter what that priest does, its clear he can solve the problem of his church militant. The catholic church has a wealth of spiritual resources that could be used to help the christians but since money making has become the most important part of each church, they have little time to look into their christians problems.
On the contrary, the so called born again churches have the own share of trouble, first the source of the powers of sometimes not from God, but from the devil and since we all want an easy way out we fall for it not knowing the comnsequences in the long run. Take for example a woman who want a child at all cost and a pastor give her a child who dies after five or seven years. whats the use then of having a child at all cost only to loose that child again. This is because this child didnt come from God but from the devil. It is also not strange to see some of these "born agains" have sexual relationship with the christans or in feymanism. Some even pratice witch craft when u go indepth into their activities.
All i can say to chirstians is that the easiest way out is not always the beast way. Stick to your church and read ur bible and pray sincerely and cinstantly. God too can use you to bring healing in your church.
Priest do what you set out to do and leave women pout of your lives.
Pastors, God will punish and expose you if your power is from the devil.
God will always remain great.

[Londoner]

Pentecostal Churches and their Pastors are very smart. I remember my days in Secondary school. There was this German Pastor called Reinhart Bonke who cane to Cameroon and said he was able to perform Miracles. I took my elder brother who was disabled by childhood polio attack. His legs are so small and weak that it can not support his body weight because he is really big , with broad shoulders. In one quick sweep. Bonke shouted to him I command You in the name of Jesus, stand up and walk. Out of fright he used his powerful hands, tried to stand up but fell heavily and split open his head. I was told, that he (we) lack faith.
And today, we both live and work in London UK.
Even here, Pentecostal Pastors are recking Havoc on poor and desperate people. Last year a Kenyan Pastor popularly called Bishop Deya, claimed to perform Miracles and barren women, can conceive and have Miracle Babies. After investigations, it was realised that all the Miracle Babies were actually stolen from a Clinic in the suburbs of Nairobi,Kenya ( as all the Miracle babies were only delivered in Kenya not UK), with his Wife as Chief accomplice. She is still in detention in Kenya. And we have not had any instance of Miracle Babies since then. Bishop Deya applied for Asylum to thwart extradiction to Kenya.
It is a complex situation and people have used the name of Jesus Christ and Healing Power to blindfold many innocent victims.
Beware, Brothers and Sisters. Salvation is a Gift fron God. With our Good Lord there are no Quick Fixes. Pary for your Salvation.
Londoner

[Mbu.B]

Ngwese,
my quote of Mathew 7:3-5 points to the fact that none is perfect and I could go on quoting again. That is in no way talking against the father`s insightful message. Instead I am full of awe after reading from this man of God.
You probably misconstrued me or may be you saw only Mathew 7:3-5
If you think I am wrong, it implies therefore the RCC is perfect.Do you think so?

[Tee]

To be frank if I pounce on this father he will regret ever making some of the utterances he made. I wish he asked me the question he asked the lady in his fiction and i will call names. It is a shame that he calls himself reverend. God deliver us. I will be back.

[Ma Mary]

Hello Chief Whip - I am just a skeptic. No religion floats my boat yet. Almost without exception, they ask people to stop thinking and to BELIEVE. I think BELIEVING is one of the greatest scams ever pulled on humanity. My only caution to the father is that people are very jealous of their beliefs, and he should expect people who believe differently to counter attack.

Anybody who goes into a religious enterprise and defuncts their faculties is asking for trouble.

[Tee]

Beloved I greet you all,
It is a pity when you read what some 'Priests' write. If I had to give a lecture on this it will take you hours reading. However I will go as far as I can.
Ma Mary, you are right, this FADA is treading on dangerous grounds. I know some of my brethren will say arguing with him will give the devil room to encroach on the already God acquired territory. The Bible says in Mathew that since the days of John the Baptist the gospel is forcefully advancing and only the forceful take hold of it. There are spiritual truths that cannot be understood if not properly taught. How do you expect the vast majority of the RCC to understand spiritual truths when they do not even own a Bible? Those who own do not even read it regularly. They have been kept in the dark for so long and now instead of acknowledging wrong doing and teach the right path i.e the path of righteous living, some (like this FADA) are resorting to blind defences and will not stand the heat when the real questions are put to them. I will personally like to have an interview with FADA Nkea and let him be sure to answer the tough questions and not the usual gossips that those who do not want to live out their faith are fond of saying in the neighbourhoods. It is not for nothing that the most powerful man on earth and a vast majority of his collaborators are born-again. It is not by chance that the leader of the most populated country in Africa is born-again. It is not for nothing that the Christian Association of Nigeria and other countries are so powerful and can decide which turn the country takes. It doesn't bother me if there is a church at each street corner. I think this FADA will prefer to have bars everywhere rather than churches. I am not in any way saying that there should be no checks and balances in these places of worship. Yes it is true there are false prophets and it pains my heart to say that. It pains my heart also when we do not live right and try to justify our unchristian behaviours. I have experienced both sides and I know what it means to be a christian. we will only meet perfection at Christ's 2nd coming but we should strive to live according to the teachings of the Bible. Even if we do not understand the theological differences the lives we live preach better than what we say. I have seen catholic Priests and catholic faithfuls live an exemplary life despite theological shortcomings. I have catholic born-again friends who live better lives and will strongly disagree on what FADA Nkea is saying. I wish FADA Nkea and those who think like him threw out all the charismatic catholic faithfuls since they go hysterical. Are these not led by some catholic priests and leaders? Rituals and religion do not save JESUS saves. Good works do not save. JESUS saves, heals and satisfies. There are theological imbalances as well in every denomination but I strongly believe we should prayerfully consider misinterpretations and do what the Bible requires of us.
one thing puzzles me when people cite cases that you can count of 'false miracles'. What about the uncountable cases of true miracles? Can you count the number of people who have become joyful once more after giving their hearts to Christ? Of course you will become frustrated if you give your life to Christ for ulterior motives or if you do not genuinely surrender. The greatest miracle is that of conversion and it beats my imagination that people still contest conversion. Nobody was born a christian. You become one(John 1:12,13) and not through sacraments but by understanding the tenets of faith, admitting ur current situation and making a U-turn to trust Christ for the rest. I have seen and heard conversion messages in some catholic churches so FADA Nkea should humble himself and learn from his colleagues. If a FADA, PASTOR, BISHOP, or OVERSEER has not at one point of his life admitted being on the other side and accepting Christ died to save him and asking Christ to take control of his life then he is an unbeliever(non-christian). He can preach the most touching sermon, recite all the written prayers Martin Luther castigated or perform all the rituals and sacraments in the most elegant manner but will not see the kingdom of God.
Someone mentioned the Belo crises to discredit the church or to discredit baptists. You will be ashamed when the differing brethren will reconcile as they are in the process of doing and lift high the banner of the Most High like it was the case of Ndu and Yaounde some years back. for your information I am a baptist who went through a catholic primary school, presbyterian secondary school and whose father is a pentecostal Pastor. I was not born a baptist. I made the choice and will not stop any of my children from worshipping in any Bible believing church.
Let me take a break here. I will be back.

[Tee]

Ma Mary,
I quoted you after reading your first reaction and not the second. As you can see we are in different worlds. If you ask my humble opinion I will say you are in a more precarious situation hanging on a fence. You have a right to your opinion. Christianity is a way of life and not a religion or a scam. Believing God requires faith and not brainstorming.

[Ngwese]

While some people are reading this sensitive issue with their hearts, some of us are using our brains. I respect the eloquent defence of Father Nkea on his employer, the catholic church. Definitely any person has to protect his job. Nevetheless he admitted that the church is a business enterprise not exempting the catholic church. Iin the catholic church today we have two cathegories of Preachers; the majority "the Preists" who are "the do as I say and not as I do" and the Minorities "The Rev. Fathers" in the who live their lives according to the scriptures. Most Preists find themselves there due to lack of job or other constrainst and Rev. Fathers take the profession as a call from God. I think it makes very little sense from a person moving from demonination to another in search of salvation.
Mr Tee thought that by using an example of Belo Field Crises was to descredit the church (Baptist). On the contrary I was justifying how evil can hide behind the bible to realise diabolic projects. Just to name a few individuals who have lost their lives because of this CBC-Belo Field war: Mr Nyahkeh,, the former to be education Sec, Killed because the post was contested by a CBC appointee. Mr Ndonyi, former MIDENO Manager and killed because he took sides with CBC although from Belo. Even this year Pastor Fointama, lost his live in the same battle. Mr. Yibain, Pastor Jam and other have been arrested jailed and tortured several times for the same church war. How many more victims are in the pipeline? No body knows.
Mr Tee, on which scale do you Judge a true church and a false one? People including great intellectuals are lossing their lives today because of these sects. Recently a Lecturer in the University of Buea (Dr. Dickmu Veronica Lum) from the Faculty of Science, who formerly was a practicing Baptist christain was lurred to one Sect called the FAITH BIBLE CHURCH in Douala which operates using a single Biblical Verse in the Bible (1 Thesalonians 5:18 which states that Be joyful always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances for this is God's will for you in Jesus Name" The lady lost her live due to this sect. If a University Professor can easily be preyed what more of laymen on the road?

[Radical For Christ]

Jesus is LORD!!!! His Mission Statement is found in Luke 3:18,19, John 10:10 and Matthew 9:11-13 (New King James Version) I firmly believe that the entire Bible- The Infallible Word of Almighty God- is an encyclopedia of RECOVERY! You might wanna call it recovery or second chance! Yeah. God gives humanity HOPE- for a new beginning. That is why the very FIRST words in the Bible (Genesis Chapter 1 verse 1) starts with these words.."In the beginning.." God is a God of new beginnings. I write first and foremost in reaction to why a greater part of the congregation in the non-denominational churches ("Born Again" if you will) are ex-prostitutes, ex-convicts, one "ex" or the other, and those seeking solutions! Yeah the Bible is for such moreso. If you are no stranger to the Bible, then you should know that the Outstanding "Characters" or personalities in the Bible are "Ex- so or so": Mary Magdalene (who was the first at the tomb to anoint the body of Christ) was an Ex-prostitute, Abraham (Whom God called His friend), Isaac, Jacob (the Patriarchs), Moses, David (A man after God's Heart), to name but these. And most amazing of all, Luke Chapter 15 records the mind-boggling story of the Prodigal Son and the uncondition and bountless Love and Mercy the Father (Analogous of Almighty God) shows the repentant son. Besides, Jesus offers an invitation in Matthew "Come unto Me all ye who are weary and heavy-laden and I will give you rest" (Mtt 11:28-30) In other words, The Master Jesus came exclusively for the Lost, needy and suffering, for Mtt 18:11 (NKJV) says the "Son of Man came to seek and to save that which was lost". While He walked the shores of Galilee, He hung with the lepers (outcast), held miracle crusades, fed the Hungry, interacted with Prostitutes, had lunch with tax collectors, etc. When questioned by the Pharisees why he did such- His response was "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick" (Mtt 9:11-13 NKJV)

[Radical For Christ]

I'm aware of the fact that my previous comment is not in reaction to the current topic under discussion. It was intended for a similar topic on the this website. However, it is not irrelevant.

[Radical For Christ]

Issues concerning non-denominational ("Born Again") churches are quite "delicate" and ought to be approached with equal care- as man's wisdom is limited and only an Omniscient (All-knowing) God who knows and searches every heart is aware or the "good" and the "bad". He is the Righteous Judge.
@ Mbu B I love your comment on God's sovereignty! He alone is perfect! It's time the "Church" (according to Fr. Nkea and in ref to the RCC) understood that there is only One Lord, One faith and One Baptism according to Eph 4:5 (NKJV).
@ Mona, I must commend your comment. Testimonies are powerful tools against the enemy (Satan) and have the power to light a brethen's "gloomy day"- stir up faith if you will. Revelation 12:11 (NKJV) says "And they overcame him (satan) by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony.." Besides, the RCC strongly believe in their dogma (which they consider a legacy handed them by Jesus) and the logic is that any other that does not resemble theirs is debunked (of which is myopic)
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Bible-believing Church. So long as it is a Bible-Believing, it is in line with God's will and that is the essence. It does not matter whether they sing and shout. What matters is whether they do worship God in Spirit and in Truth (John 4:23) All I know is that the Holy Spirit takes absolute control and does lead the praise/worship. The Bible says to "Make a Joyful Noise to the Lord all the lands! (Psalm 100:1 RSV) The Holy Spirit is the Teacher ( 1 Cor 2:13) Let Him teach you and guide you in ALL truth.
Summarily, it's all about God and mankind's "quest" or desire for an intimate relationship with Him- as was between God and Adam in the Garden of Eden before the fall! There is a vacuum in us which only God can fill. I call it the "God Space" nothing short of God can fill it- not sex, not drugs, not crack not boyfriend/girlfriend, money, fame, notoriety, not even CHURCH etc. if you go to any church (no matter which- RCC, PCC, CBS, non-denominational etc) you may be dissatisfied because they are NOT the answer! JESUS is! NOT the Priest, Pastor nor Deacon.
The Lord is near to the Broken-hearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. It's about a yearning to know Him and experience the fullness of life, living according to His will and purpose for your life. Yes! your life does have a purpose. There is a special reason for your existence (Eccl 3:1)
Jesus said in Matthew 12:25 that "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand." Solomon writes in Ecclesiases 3:14,15 (NKJV) "I know that whatever God does, It shall be forever. Nothing can be added to it, And nothing taken from it. God does it, that men should fear before Him. That which is has already been, and what is to be has already been; and God requires an account of what is past."

[Radical For Christ]

These are great sites you wouldn't want to afford missing out on. I mean you can watch Live Broadcasting:
-http://www.tbn.org/index.php/2.html
http://www.bennyhinn.org/television/tiyd.cfm
-http://www.wisdomcenter.tv/
-http://www.streamingfaith.com

[Ma Mary]

Tee --- if God were immanent, what is the worth of BELIEF? Belief indicates doubt and impotence and insecurity. I have watched people of belief praying to God with force, furrowing their brows as if God were deaf, struggling to conform God to their little agendas. That is impudence.

If God has placed you here, pay attention to the task infront of you in this life. The purpose is all here. Living correctly does not require belief.

Belief is a dangerous hypnotic weapon of war, that blinds people and prepares them to go after themselves and others on behalf of those who render the spell. Beware of belief, it is blindness. It is delusion.

[Tee]

Ma Mary,
I think we have to examine the word 'belief' so that we can have a proper discussion. Dictionary.com gives me these definitions

1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.
2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.
3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.

I find it difficult understanding your last write-up. What do you mean by 'people of belief'? let me assume you are talking of christians here coz there are people who believe in other gods. Do christians believe in God or in man? I believe in God's infallible word. I can dispute a wrong interpretation but not the word of God. The hysterics you have watched should not frighten you. These people were simply pouring their hearts to God. Some do it for show and that is what is unbiblical. Whether praying silently or praying aloud what matters is your communication with God. Is it from a repentant heart? If I find myself where people are comfortable praying aloud I do so but I endeavour to concerntrate on my prayers and not what my neighbour is saying or doing. I agree that there are some who try to fit God into their agendas and that is wrong. Praying audibly is biblical but I think you can pray audibly without disturbing the person next to you most especially if your neighbours do not understand the biblical backing. Praying silently is biblical as well. Where i disagree is the case where some christians think they can control the Holy Spirit. NO WAY! He is God and indwells all believers(christians). Ma Mary I guess you have discarded the Apostle's creed you learnt while growing up - I BELIEVE IN GOD...
Christianity is a matter of choice. The 1st definition helps us to understand that we have to deliberately make this choice. We should not be forced into it. The Bible says faith comes from hearing and after hearing believing. It further says if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, you will be saved. You can still hear and choose not to believe. You can see that it takes a wilful act to believe. I am tempted here to get into Calvinism or Arminianism but I will avoid it coz it will introduce a theological debate and we might end up missing the point.

you wrote: Living correctly does not require belief. Granted but living correctly with the hope of enjoying the other side of eternity requires BELIEF IN GOD and not belief in another person or thing. The Bible is man's user manual and that is the only way we can live correctly for those who have that hope. Whether you like it or not everybody has a belief. some believe in God while others believe in chariots or horses or other objects or people. I will continue later.

Ngwese, so nobody dies naturally when involved in a disagreement or when he/she moves to another denomination? I have talked of a reconciliation process and you know reconciliation means admitting error and apologizing. This is a typical christian act. Don't forget conversion entails admitting one's sinful ways and repenting from those ways while trusting Christ to take total control of your heart. Trying to justify wrongs is unchristian so I will not try to justify but will implore you to avoid painting black just to discredit. I have been praying about the Belo crisis and no defamatory remark from one camp will stop me from doing so. God bless you.

[Ma Mary]

Tee--Believe what ever you want. It is your choice. The most noteworthy thing about you believers is your rock solid certainty, buttressed by affirmations, prayers and other hypnotic practices that yours is the way, the only way, THE truth. That kind of certainty appears to be a sine qua non for belief. Of course, not all people are rigid in this way. There are many, gladly most who allow doubt and reason to ventilate their belief capsule and prevent it from becoming combustible. So many conficts are either products of or are fueled by these overly massaged myths. Need I provide examples of these?

My advice to the young ones is to chose knowledge and thought over belief, and to learn to become comfortable with life's uncertainties. It is more honest, more noble than to be prodded into taking up belief for fear of hell fire or possibility of reward in some future paradise. It is a higher order of good when good work is done just because it is good, than because of fear of punishment or attraction of reward. It is a much more rewarding journey. Having trod the path of faith and belief before, I know a thing or two. Do it if it lifts your boat. My personal opinion--move on quickly and do not be taken for a ride.

[Ma Mary]

Tee i like some of the things you have said about prayer and so on. You believe that the Christian Bible is THE manual. What are you going to tell the Moslem, or the Bahai, or the Orisha, the Daoist or the Buddhist all living a good life and somehow believing that they have each found THE way? Maybe you have a work around solution. It would be illuminating to know what that is.

[Beybunui]

Brethren, I greet you all in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I am so happy because when it is God, He exposes you using your own words. the Rev. Father justified himself according to the Catholic canon law, thank God christians are supposed to live by the Word of God and not the canon law.

[Ashwell Molaba]

Ma Mary,

I haven't taken time to read your comments but you are one thousand percent right. No religion has "floated my boat" to copy you. Religion is the opium of the masses so said, Karl Marx. Nobody goes around saying I believe that gravity exist. No one says I believe the sun will rise tomorrow. Believe is accepting something you know for sure that you do not know. Giving descriptions of things you know that you don't know is the very basis of the nonsense that we call religion.

Rev Father Nkea is a family member of mine and I am very proud of him. He took a path that many people doubted he could. He spent many years at the seminary. His comments about the Pentecostals make a lot of sense. More so to someone who knows him; because his mother is a Pentecostal. However, it is just the case of one form of religion telling another that it is wrong. Both do not contain any truth. The history of the Roman Catholic Church speaks volumes. The Pentecostals present that too often. Father Nkea was just doing to them what they do to the RCC and that is all there is to this article.

Tee and whoever who want to challenge the eloquent Ma Mary should really think about this carefully. Can anyone honestly say "I know god" without causing great harm to the word "know"? When I say, I know Chemistry or that I know Michael Jackson; everyone expect me to pass a chemistry test or pick MJ in a crowd. But when you say you know god, through conjectures and all sorts of un-testable evidence, you are talking rubbish. It is an absolute truth that no one has any evidence for God, Allah etc. And the books they supposed wrote contain too many errors for any reasonable man to waste time on them.

Some people insist on quoting the Bible. A book that can be clearly demonstrated to be false and inaccurate. Let me here give a few examples. The first five books of the bible were supposedly written by Moses. Yet in Deuteronomy we read a clear description of Moses' death and burial. In most of these books, the writer refers to Moses in the third person. The writer refers to places across the Jordan, yet we are told that Moses never crossed the Jordan. Reading the books that follow, like Joshua, Kings, Samuel, one notices a clear transition from one book to the next. As if the writer(s) were in accordance. The language is the same as if written by one person. In Joshua, we are told that god made the sun to stop so that Joshua could fight. Yet, we know that it is scientifically inaccurate. For the sun does not move. Galileo was imprisoned by the RCC for saying the sun does not move. If the Bible lies on one thing, can it be telling the truth on others?

Only children can believe stories like a man died was buried and woke up later. Weak evidence can never (and should never) replace strong evidence. My senses (and I believe it is true for most reasonable people) tell me that a man who dies remains dead. If Tee were to claim that he died and was raised from the dead, my sense will tell me that he is either lying or confused. That evidence is stronger than the one that says he may be telling the truth. An objective reading of the bible is the most potent argument against religion in general and Christianity in particular.

[Ashwell Molaba]

Radical for Christ,

I strongly think you should consider what you write before making a fool of yourself in public. The point of an “all-knowing” omniscient god has been debated by the greatest philosophers on the planet. Surely you have heard of Laplace’s demon. If god is “all-knowing” it begs the question why he created faulty human beings and blames them for his fault? God created a human being knowing fully well that he would love to fly planes into buildings in the name of god. But still he did it. Either this god does not know or you just claim that he knows. Any human being who knows something is bad and does it, we call him stupid.

As for limited human wisdom, let me point out to you that compared to god’s “all-knowing” wisdom any reasonable man will pick human wisdom any day. For human wisdom invented all amenities that make your life easier, like planes, computers, cares, washing machines, clothes just to name a few. No gods have created anything worthwhile to the human race. All we have is a claim that god created the universe, but we know that a universe is not created. But even if we were to grant that claim, we are faced with questions like why did god create HIV, mosquitoes etc. Try telling a gazelle that its sole purpose on earth is to be food for lions. Thou great god in the sky, with a long beard who created all things including HIV, that murderer of innocent young girls, leaving countless orphans and child headed homes in Africa, I find it hard to believe that you are good.

Radical for Christ, you seem to have read your Bible very well. Thank goodness, I have read mine too. I would like for you to convince me that there is anything in the Bible worth accepting as truth. That is a challenge. Give me any evidence to believe anything written in that book. For I have read it and come to the conclusion that it was written mostly by ignorant people trying to convince people who were more ignorant than them. How do I reconcile the undisputable fact that god who created the universe alone, with no help from anybody today needs a whole army of preachers and people like you to convince me that what he supposedly wrote is true? Why is it that every miracle you boys can dream up (without lying obviously) has a perfectly natural explanation? Your resurrection story, if true is an argument against god, not for god. For god’s laws dictate that when a living thing dies, that is the end. For any living thing to rise from the dead is to defy god’s law. God said let there be light, and there was light. Yet he cannot say, let my word be spread without stealing money from poor ignorant people. God needs money to spread his own word, how absurd is that?

[Tee]

Molaba,
You can blaspheme as much as you can but it will not change the TRUTH. It is good you say philosophers have done whatever. They are philosophers and will want to be great by trying to denigrate the word of God. Please always spell God with 'G' if you are talking about the Almighty. I don't need to analyze your write-ups. You can think castigating christianity will make you look like a great scholar. You are deceiving yourself and the gospel will continue to advance despite negative comments. You have choosen your way. Know you will not be able to choose the consequences. I wonder what you and Ma Mary tell your children. Guess they go for sports when others are encouraging each other at a sanctuary where the word of God is preached and practice. You can even quote Darwin. Mark you! Most of those who were real time blasphemers ended up repenting. God is God. God is not allah or bahahullah. you can continue your lecture on religions but know that christianity is a way of life. Jesus remains THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. No one goes to the father except through HIM.

[Ashwell Molaba]

Tee,

Thank you for responding to my comments, which unfortunately you have labelled as blasphemy. In any case it does not actually matter because you have presented no evidence for such judgement. Typical religious bull some might say.

Language conventions like spelling god with "G" have absolutely no directive from the Bible. But people like you will continue to distort language and use words like "know" when you don't know. May be you should go to www.dictionary.com again. For centuries christians have been telling us that life is death and death is life, it is high time we consulted a dictionary.

While we are on the dictionary topic, please check the meaning of the word Truth. Truth happens to be based on verifiable evidence not spurious claims. You can claim anything you want and called it truth but surely, it must stand the test of TRUTH. If you say someone died in Kom or Akwaya and woke up three days later. Every reasonable human being will ask for evidence. When you are asked for evidence, please don't point to a book that does not even know the world is round not flat. That book must be the biggest insult to god.

[Tee]

Molaba,
It will not surprise me when you refer to God as 'god'. It reflects your belief so that is not a language problem. God is God and there are gods. Feel free to choose one of the gods but know you cannot choose the consequence. The Bible remains God's infallible word to those who believe in Him and live according to His precepts. The Bible remains truth.

[Ashwell Molaba]

Tee,

Let us have a reasonable conversation. Please bring in "Radical for Christ" to act on your behalf. Let us not bombard each other with spurious claims. When you say "there are gods"; what do you mean? Do you have any evidence for gods? I can say "there are mountains". If you ask me evidence, I will show you. But I cannot say, there invincible pink unicorns standing next to Tee now. Because the invincible and the inexistent look very similar. Now, my friend, don't make rubbish claims unless you have evidence.

If you do not know, let me tell you. It is simply a grammatical convention to refer to the Jewish YHWH as God. It does not mean there is something or a being sitting somewhere answering to that name. The tetragrammaton used here is merely because the Jews do not refer to their deity by its name.

Again, you can use that feel free to choose your god to frighten little ignorant children not grown men and women. What if I choose not to choose any god at all? Why do I have to choose in the first place? Why do we talk of consequences for choices that I did not choose to make in the first place? If I had chosen Earth then, good. But if you just find yourself here and someone wants to punish you for it, ghosh, how stupid can we be?

If a man were to kidnap you, take you into the hinterland. Put you into a cage and deny you all food and drink. If you manage to escape, find some food which does not belong to you and eat. You of course would have stolen. But whose fault would it be? You? Or the man who kidnapped you in the first place? Now, go figure!

[Tee]

Molaba,
you make me laugh. Why do you think I will need radical for Christ? I guess you are impressed with verses. I have your email address and if you want me to get into apologetics I will. What we are saying here is not an academic exercise or showbiz. Hope when i react with Hebrew and Greek you will not say i am trying to impress you. I am not trying to convince or convert you. I am preaching Christ who is the ONLY WAY, TRUTH AND LIFE. Period. Truth is truth.

Molaba, atheists of the first order have tried and some ended up repenting. Stop wasting your precious time. EVERYBODY believes in somebody or something whether you like it or not. ur educational attainment, possessions or social status might be ur 'god'.

[Ashwell Molaba]

Tee,

Thank you very much for suggesting a quieter, less show-off environment to preach. I will gladly welcome and respond to your emails. May be you have the evidence that has eluded the greatest minds on the planet. Just may be you will show me this god, who is in hiding. Let him be a god who created you, not a creation of your overactive imagination.

My sincere apologies to anyone who has been subjected to this back-and-forth tirade. Though I must take this opportunity to thank Ma Mary for the very insightful comments.

Also, in true fashion I will not let unfounded stories be spread about me on the net. If indeed as you suggest Tee, I pursue material goods, or intellectual fulfilment, why on earth must we attach the name of a god to that? Is it wrong to seek intellectual enlightenment? I suppose so; for your doctrine teaches that we must cast all knowledge away and seek stupidity. Seek belief in what we know in our hearts of hearts to be untrue. I mean, the first sin was all about eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge, wasn't it? Take your children away from schools, lest they often god by gaining knowledge. In all these, you must tell me why intellectual enlightenment should be elevated (or demoted for that matter) to the level of a god.

[Ndiks]

Churches AKA Pontificating houses keep springing up,hordes of Africans throng these houses to seek for a way to mitigate their hopelesness,frustrations,poverty,while some criminal nobs throw a portion of their ill-gotten bucks ,seeking for what we call blessings,for their vices.One Prof Noam Chomsky had this to say : Christianity and civilisation manage poverty and instill hope that tomorrow will be better, similar to a state lotto. Religion comforts people’s minds, controlling their frustrations, re-routing their anger and hopelessness. Most of the time, tomorrow never comes. Why do these vicar apostolics don't take and answer questions during their gospel preaching.A dogma house,isn't it?

[chief]

There's more wisdom in listening than inspeaking so i'll speak very few sensible words unlike the Fr who's taken up time and energy to speak many words with little sense. first thing to note is that if the r.c.c was good it never could have split. also if the fr were really a man of God he could not have spent his time speaking against the body of christ cos in so doing he is pledging allergiance to the vatican and not God

[Radical For Christ]

@ Tee, you don't have to spend any further second of your time on Molaba. The Holy Ghost Himself will do the work! Yes...He WILL because I am asking The Master (Jesus) in firm-believing that He will do a quick work in a short time in this precious life (Molaba). God is AWESOME and AMAZING! He BEST knows how to arrest such hearts (Ezekiel 36:22-32. My emphasis is on Verse 26 and 27- "A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I willput within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh...I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes.") I am reminded of Paul the Apostle (Who had a "revolutionary" encounter with the Jesus whom he persecuted on Damascus road.) I thank God for sending JESUS! We (including you Molaba)are the reason why He came! To seek and to save that which was lost! God is NOT willing that any soul should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance- that includes this precious soul- Molaba!
Molaba, I just sent you an e-mail. There is no need to "show-off" philosphy or man's limited wisdom in this "forum". Pls we meet behind beyond this "forum". If you don't mind pls, send me your phone number so I can call U. I'm currently in Brussels, Belgium. I don't care where you are- I'm gonna answer your questions. I await your mail. Meanwhile, Welcome to family of the Most High God. I speak it, in accordance to the Word of God! You shall be a Labourer in the Lord's wineyard for the harvest is plenty indeed, yet the labourers are few- thus need for more...and why not U?

[Chief Whip]

Hi All,
just to inform you that "Radical for Christ" is writing from Germany (Hamburg) not Belgium (Brussels)as he claims.
Mr. Radical for Christ, radicalism owes its morals to honesty.

Whip.

[Radical For Christ]

@ Chief Whip, how can U justify the fact that I'm in Hamburg as you claim and not Brussels? Maybe you could give me a call- Oops! Unfortunatly, I can't put up my phone number here. Besides, your email address is incorrect- else I could have sent U a mail. What difference would it make were I to say I'm in Hamburg whereas I'm right here- in Brussels? You might want to rectify your email address so I can send you my phone number. In that way, you can give me a call to ascertain your claim. I'm RADICAL for Christ Jesus indeed. You know why? Because I'm madly in love with Him! He's my ALL in ALL. In Him I live, I move and I have my being. I'm just crazy about Him. He's so sweet! O! How I love You Precious Jesus. You are Indeed SUPERB!