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Thursday, 14 December 2006

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Watesih

Honourable Mbah Ndam,
Cameroonians know your steadfastness to see to it that a skeletal type of a thing is not rammed down the throats of Cameroonians.Stand up to those Cpdm antics,until the body is completely independent.The SDF is not going to be part of this buffoonery again.Cameroon is not going to continue seeing pseudo-intellectuals called Sous-prefets putting into practice what they learn from their rotten school ENAM.Biya`s French mentor`s have been making turns at the Unity Palace all these days to fine-tuned a sham of a thing to present to Cameroonians.Biya
definitely wants to be life President,but the SDF must stand up to this.

Akoson

Yeah, from every indication Biya wants a life presidency!

He's afraid that should he make the slightest error and land an opposition man in that palace, he'll be given a death sentence. The guy knows that very well. He's a president who has been very careful about dealing with just everybody. He doesn't have a "korokoro paddiman". Everyone's his enemy1

The guy plays the card well. But sooner than later the card will play him. I'm happy if he has the life presidency syndrome cos he'll be an eye-witness of his downfall. Historians should start writing about the FALL of that homosexual dictator.

What can the SDF do now??? It's really hard to see these guys sawllow all the powers. Southern Cameroonians like Watesih should join the Anglophone struggle and better plan for our country. Those oligarchs in Yaounde plan for their belly and that of France, NOTHING ELSE!

The son.

Ottou

I thought the lion man is not afraid of elections. The C people are panicking. The Lion man is calculative. He wants to rig next years elections and manage the end of his mandate. Its going to be tough for this guy because the pressure is on. Mbah Ndam keep alerting us.

kisah

ahahah these guys are scared of elections,i thought biya is kingkong of africa who can win all elections, shame to the C people, we have all seen what ur plans are, but beware of an arm struggle, not long from now we shall be like Chad, and Biya should always remember that not even a single soldier will abandon his family to fight for him because they are not spared by the abject poverty prevailing in cameoon. make man no run when the time comes,after the war we shall come up with a true and independent electoral commission that meets the aspiration of each and every cameroonian. God´s punishment to u all including Fon Doh.

Reader

Mr. Biya, you came in through a constitutional coup and that constitution has been your spiritual guide but it's sad to say you're coming to the end of your journey on the wrong road and not long from now there is a coup that will successfully put you out. This is news from the netherworld.

Ma Mary

Biya is a Rosy Cruxian. Surely that has something to do with roses and crosses. He sees parties such as SDF the way a person looks at a rose. It has thorns, but with care he can avoid being pierced. It also makes him look good and gives off a nice smell that disguises the putrescence of despotism. He also likes crosses to nail his opponents on them. These Rosy Cruxians are a french secret society, and might be a way to control gullible Africans. They are not a big deal in America or even in France. Why are they so powerful in Africa?

Watesih

Ma Mary,
You`ve not got it completely wrong there.This people wax very strong in France.You should know that for students to gain admission into prestigious French institutions,they must first of all adhere to the principles,and join one of these esoteric movements.Party lines in France are drawn according to which sect you belong to,and African leaders exactly fit into this general pattern carved out by the French.I hope you remember that the guru of the Rosicrucians is French,and he is the guy who came to Cameroon ,and went back with 7 billion francs from Biya.I hope you also know that the second coming of the Pope to Cameroon was to bail Biya out of the Franc
Macon sect ,where he was threatened by people like the Bell Joseph Antoine who had spent more time there than him.Ma Mary Biya refused to fund the campaign of Edourd Balladur ,and even Chirac because they were not of his own sect.People even predicted that with the coming of Chirac,there was going to be less French interferance in Cameroon because he and Biya were members of different sects,and Biya did not have a liking for him as he had for his "Meillure Professeur".
Ma Mary ,as to why these sects blossom in Africa,the answer is evident.Psychology tells us that when you are in a neurotic situation,you are easily cowed by promises of a better future.The younger generation of Africans are living this situation today.Any
modern day Jesus Christ that promises heaven to them will win their hearts.These sects appeal to their emotions,promise them better careers,and wealth.This is taking advantage of the moral situation of a people and wreaking havoc on them.Its just like you will have Petit Pays in Cameroon pose naked for photos,sing "Nyoxez" to the delight of 2 year olds,who will heartily repeat these patters.People like Petit Pays are exploiting a situation where the adults have abandoned the youths to themselves.
Ma,we don`t get much of this in America,because this society was built on the puritan spirit.They completely uphold these values.Secondly Americans are workaholic,as compared to the Epicureans in France who have a 35 hours working week,but still complain about the hours.The French have time to fantasize about things that are out of the ordinary.Their society is not also doing well economically ,so they can find refuge in fallacious promises from sects.
Ma Mary,stories about the Omar Bongos,
Eyademas,Biyas,Gbagbos,and sects in France have always been the pasttime of readers of famous French,and African Magazines like Jeune Afrique Economie,Le Figaro etc.The African societies are sick societies,so the appeal from sects is too strong to be ignored.

Ma Mary

Excellent, Watesih. This is an important discussion that needs to be continued for understanding to occur.

The Rosy Crux also claim to subscribe to the principles Karma, which is actually a noble principle. The word itself is of Indian (Sanskrit) origin and it means you reap what you sow. You sow evil, you reap evil.

You sow love and kindness and compassion and that is what you get back. Why then do these Rosy crux people chose consistently to sow corruption, power grabbing, murder, crime and nepotism?

It appears that on the surface, at the level of personal philosophy, it might be OK. The problem is the underground nature of their initiations and secret oaths. It creates alternative hierarchies of power and fierce personal loyalties that undermine the open external structures of the country itself. Nigeria is one country which has had serious problems with Rosy Cruxians, Free Masons and home grown similar societies such as the Ogboni confraternity. The late ST Muna was reputed to be a high level Rosy Crux. How that played into our present situation gives much food for thought. I am sure there are many like that. Ogboni used to be rampant in the Southern Cameroons, especially around Victoria in the 1950s and 60s with quite a few secret lodges.

A person who is your clerk during the day could be your master at night subjecting you to blood curdling oaths and humiliations. That kind of situation undermines discipline and breeds corruption. The beauty of our times is that we can now talk about these things and we must. The teachings of all these groups are now cheaply available on Amazon and other places on the internet. You will not die or go crazy if you read them to understand what is going on and how the people who misrule us were deluded into believing that they are a special caste, exempt from the rules. Even a two year old understands justice and injustice; right or wrong. You do not need special initiations. We come equiped from the womb.

When religion or spirituality mixes itself with desire for power, the results can be quite disastrous. Think about the Islamic fundamentalists. Think about what is going on in America, where the religious right has lost its spiriitual moorings by power grabbing thinking they are doing God's work.

vito

Hi watesih,its Freemasons in English.Thanks

Big Joe

I extracted this from an article I read about Biya's power lotion and thought it could throw more light on the Rose croix subject.


In 1984, a financial scandal flared up within the Ancient and Mystic Order of the Rose-Croix, AMORC. This scandal demystified a secret society hitherto liable to create shivers in people. Sessou Henri, the Grand Treasurer - General of AMORC had just resigned and the Society had taken him to court for embezzlement. This matter caused surprise and gave the public an unexpected opportunity to know a considerable deal on a society which had had the reputation of being inviolable. Sessou Henri (Beninois) was then the first and the only black to have crossed all the levels of initiation at the Rose -Croix and to have reached the highest degree of gradation of the AMORC. He could boast of all the distinctions and honors of the Order. In his capacity as Grand Master, he assumed the function of Grand Treasurer- General but still nursed certain recriminations against this society of mystics. These recriminations led him to, after militating in the society for decades, resign and express his frustration. The ex- grand master revealed that AMORC is a quasi mystico- philosophical organization within which racial segregation is the order of the day. To prove his point, Sessou said that monographs used by novices of the same level differ according to whether these beginners are of Western extraction or from the Third World. This is hidden from the neophytes by the fact that distribution of monographs is confidential. Meanwhile, the Third World alone provides the order with half of its followers, which constitutes a very important financial contribution into the Order's coffers. But continued Sessou, very few Africans have important posts in the central organs of the organization. This is a blatant illustration of the exploitation they receive from a system presented as spiritual and philanthropic but whose true motivations are of financial and political nature The Grand Master and grand Treasurer-General had wielded control over financial matters and consequently, over salaries paid by the organization as well. He maintained that other Rosicrucians with grades far behind his and posts far below his earned salaries and allowances far above his just because of racial considerations. In spite of the effort he had, he said, been conflicted with its ethics. He recorded the Rose-croix's secret doctrines, which sold like hot cakes. Most of the practiced described in these book find definitions and which can make the reader understand what human beings disabuse themselves to making such exercised. Truth is relative in the objective world. So long as rational beings consider those practicing such things as mad and perverse, so to do the latter consider the ideas of the former pessimistic and negative. Where then does truth lie? What is truth? Sassou Henri found solace in Jesus Christ within the Christian church and engaged himself in the charismatic Revival after having been dragged to court by AMORC for embezzlement. Today, there are many people who, having firmly militated in these hermetic societies, have understood that placing confidence in Jesus is the easier thing to do; for he is the way, the Truth and the life. Whenever those ruling our African countries shall turn to him, a new say shall break for African peoples. This message is especially intended for those governing Cameroon.

Ma Mary

I believe in constitutional government and the rule of law. That is openess and fairness itself in an imperfect world, as long as the law itself. I believe in the hermetic (vacuum) separation of church and state. Church includes all religions including the Christic, Islamic, traditional, witchcraft, atheism and of course the hermetic societies we are discussing here. There has to be an inviolable seal between church and state and spiritual needs to stay spiritual. I have no problem with devil worshippers as long as they do not break any law and do not hurt others. It they cross that line, they should expect to be held accountable.

The last commentator here says that the alternative to Rosycrux is Christianity. I beg to differ most vehemently. The alternative is separation of church and state and no exceptions and special cases; no inviolate castes, no underground and nocturnal governments. Do all the freemasoning you like but no corruption.

Why do I say that? All spiritual organisations, even Christian become contaminated when they intersect with the material world and its temptations. Take the Catholic church for instance. It is said that Foncha was consulting the Bishop on many crucial matters of the state of West Cameroon. On its own not a bad thing, except that the Prime Minister was a devout Catholic christian and the Bishop was his lord in the religion. The same contradiction with Biya and the Imperator of the Rosycrux. The Catholic church itself has a religious order called the Opus Dei, which has some disturbing similarities to the Masons and the Roses. This does not mean that the Christian protestants are spared. America is replete with Right Wing Christians cults that control every breath, thought, decisions and waking moments of their followers, sometimes with disastrous results.

No, Jesus is not an alternative to separation of Church and state. Do your thing. The only guarantor of liberty for all is a good principled constitution and committment to upholding it. Religions will always favor their followers over others. That eventual results in chaos and revolution. That is where the FrancoCamerounese state is headed.

DaDiceman

What Africans let France get away with in Africa beggars belief. I cannot think of any other race in world who will so willingly be abused, despised, exploited, and in short treated with total contempt, by a country from another continent; while all the time their resources are being exploited with impunity by the said country.

It is obvious the French have no respect for Africans, but yet will not leave Africa alone. I appreciate Africa is the only part of the world these French cheese eating, Gauloise smoking, unwashed surrender monkeys still have any influence over; but why do Africans put up with this?Where else in the world will France bomb a country's airforce (Ivory Coast), assist in a genocide (Rwanda), forment civil wars (Ivory Coast and the Central African Republic), and get away with it? Every other major European power has kicked France's backside in their various wars. Only the darkies in Africa let these spineless idiots flex their muscles. What is it in the African character that tolerates the arrogance of the contemptible French?

Watesih

Vito,
You are absolutely right,they call themselves freemasons in English.

Ma Mary,
Your alert ,and inquisitive mind is good for us.You posed a very pertinent question.Why do these rosicrucians choose to be corrupt,grab power,muder,and involve themselves in crime,and nepotism? The late Cameroonian intellectual joggernaut Prof. Bernard Fonlon wrote,"Each person tries to be moved than the others,that is one of the most fundamental forces at the back of human endeavour".This is what characterises most of the society that are not built on sound moral principles.Societies where people doubt themselves.Societies where personal cult is rife;where people don`t believe in the collective,but thrust their destinies in the hands of individuals.These individuals or groups pull them a long by the nose,there are intrigues,the selected few compete for ostentation.When we talk about ostentation here,there are three things that stand out;money ,women ,and power.Ma Mary,imagine for a moment how somebody who worship these three will carry around himself in society.
These are exactly the three things that make people want to go too fast.In this wise,they lose their spirituality,become vain and maleable.What characterises them next is demagogy,corruption,power mongering.
Ma Mary ,Franceafrique which is immersed in these things more than the others,has never wished for anything but to breed indiscipline,and corruption as you rightly describe.In society when you involve yourself in necromancy,it is because you want to live above the frail.You don`t want to dance attendance on anyone,especially the ordinary folk.This comes with strings.The fact that few people,who are suppose to lead huddle together,and instead go in quest of things that are out of the ordinary,shows that there is going to be suffering for themselves and their people.We have seen the price that some of this people have paid.When Biya`s wife started interfering in his business,they asked for her blood,the Charles Ndongos have lost their wives to have powers,the Roger Millas,in France Pierre Beregovoy,the PM committed suicide ,and this was linked to these type of things
Ma Mary,where i have to strike a discordant tone with you is your idea of Separation of Church ,and state.What is the role of the church? The church serves a social function,but it is implicitly involved in Politics,because the church would not allow the people it seeks justice for to be trampled upon.When the church comes out strong against injustice,it should not be selective on who the aggressor is.So this is where the riddle lies.The Politicians therefore have to pretend (anyway in broad daylight) to be pious ,while under darkness they speak a different language.The politician has always gone out of the way to corrupt even the church.This is because they cease advantage of the fact that the church should not openly meddle in Politics to bring fear to the men of God.Those of the clergy who have stood up to them have had their lives prematurely switched off.You can name them;The Archbishop of Canterburry Beckett, Monseigneur Ndongmo,Yves Plumier,the 7 sisters in Dzoum etc.
Ma Mary you are right that America is replete with all these occultic groups,but you should know that mysticism is part of human nature,but their society gives a good example of the state ,and church co-existing
.The colonies America became a country because of religious persecution from the political institutions in Britain.The puritans went loooking for a promised land,where they could worship freely.These religious undertones governs all aspects of life in America.Because they think that if salvation should come from God,then it must be used by everyone,including the Politicians for the benefit of mankind. This is what is lacking in Franceafrique,i mean this underlying desire to do that which is beneficial to a great number,not a selected occultic few.

Ma Mary

Watesih: do not get me wrong. Separation of church and state protects religion from entering the contradictions of temporal power. It also protect non believers and believers from the excesses of state religion. It does not mean religions should be weak.

That does not mean that religion does not have a role. I think religion has a role in modeling good behavior and in condemning and even militating against evil. However, when religion participates in actual power grab, it becomes sullied and evil itself . That is the problem with the secret societies. therefore what Cardinal Tumi does, in pointing out wrong or what ArchBishop Tutu similarly did in South Africa are good. That could be the role of religion. But when Religion plots, secretly forms and backs political parties and so on, it has embarked on a dark road.

There are always exceptions, usually in extreme and perilous situations.

In free societies, people cannot be stopped from belonging to whatever.

About 30 years ago, an Israeli prime minister resigned because his wife was traced withdrawing money from a bank account in New York. It was the same Ytzhak Rabin who was later on re-elected and then assassinated. The reason was that the Prime Minister was not allowed to have a foreign bank account. The frogs must be croaking in laughter about this kind of funny integrity, which only an anglofool would admire.

What has this got to do with our current discussion? It has got to do with transparency. People take oaths to serve their country in their office. Biya surely took something ripped off from something the French presidents do. Original thinking is not their strongest suit. These people take these oaths but have taken stronger oaths to European juju houses as well as their village juju houses and churches and other fraternal organisations. When things get to a crunch, guess what oath they take seriously?

People seeking high office should be required (in Southern Cameroons, because I have abandoned this freaky union) to state all organisations to which they have sworn fealty. In the case of the Freemasons, their oaths are published and could even be found on the internet. The country would want to know if you are a rosycrux, nyankwe, nganya, ekpwe, ngumba, ngwerong, freemason,priest, knight of Malta etc. You will then be required to swear a customized oath that supercedes any and all of these. If you lie or omit any affiliation, it would be grounds for instant impeachment or resignation if you have any honour. If you find that your loyalty to any of these remains superior in your heart, then do not take office. Africa has suffered immensely from these so called elites with divided loyalties.

Those young people who will really effect the change, I hope you are reading this discussion. Do not allow superstitious powers to overwhelm us again.

Ma Mary

I may like to add that the Puritans were escaping from State Religion. That is where the persecution was coming from. The Puritans then went to New England (Massachussetts) and created a state Religion there as well. They persecuted the unreligious and the non puritans as well as their fellow puritans.

Luckily, the freemasons in this case came to the rescue. They wrote a constitution for the United States which proscribed the government from creating a state religion, and where there was separation of church and state. That is what allows diverse religious entities and their adherents to coexist cheek by jowl.

pandaks

Hi Guys,
Excellent discussion!!
But continue to point out the relevance to the Cameroonian Context, and the way forward.

Watesih

Ma Mary,
The idea of Divine Rights of Kings will not certainly sound strange to you and i.
This is a form of arbitrariness that the Kings summoned to perrennise their grip on the people.But why did they prefer such a notion? It because every king,Monarch,or Prince recognises the fact that there`s somebody up there,whose omnipotence cannot be challenged.So religion,and the state have always gone hand in glove.Political institutions are not crusading for a fairy world,but for the same better conditions, justice ,equality that the church clamours for.These two entities are headed towards the same direction.It is only when some modern day Tsars become unscrupulous, and inconsequential for reasons we have already outlined that we may start thinking of separating the state from religion.
We are not saying that religion is not important or that it is more important than the state,but we are saying that the church
as a social tool complements the work the state is supposed to do,and should not therefore be seen as a threat to the state in anyway.When the church builds schools,health centres,and work for the moral uprightness of the people,it is not because the country doesn`t have a constitution that stipulates the fact that the Politicians have to do this type of work.The Church is part of what is loosely called Civil society,and the members of the Politial class draw their spiritual welbeing from this church.
Ma Mary,we cannot circumvent the role of each of the institutions in our society.Just as the role of the church overlapse or stretches in to the role of the politician, so does that of the Executive stretch in to the Legislative,and judiciary.That`s more the reason why the President has to confirm the Representative of the Pope,that is why the President has to appoint the leaders of Parliament,congress,before they are confirmed.If everything is done to limit the powers ,or separate the state from the church,it will imply that one is doubting the social function that the other plays.The emphasis on their social role.The other part of the state intruding in the activities of the church can still be addressed by the people these two bodies are caled to serve.
This has been done in America,Britain.The people are normally the guardians of their constitution,and should see to it that every sector of society abides by its rules.
Ma Mary ,it is not only in America that the constitution prohibits the government from creating a state religion.In Cameroon the the constitution does not stipulate this.The idea of state religion in Franceafrique comes as a result of the frivolousness of all politicians under this entity which is understandable.The desire to stray into the domain of the church has to do with the fact that they go after things of the flesh,than cater for the welbeing of their society.
Ma Mary,every constitution starts with the name of God,because the essence of Poilitics is to work for the moral,physical
,and intellectual welbeing of the people,so we always crave on the indulgence of God to be able to deliver the goods.If God has to answer our solicitations,this can only be done through his representatives ,the clergy.Since the constitution is written by man,it therefore implies that by asking for Gods grace,the representative of God who are around them will deputies for the Lord.This shows us how the Church ,and the state are inextricably tied.
This discussion is linked to our situation in that we cannot allow our youths to be trained,nursed by people who put to question the role of the church,and instead propose solutions from the dark world.Making our youths to live in an idealic utopic world,instead of learning the virtues of hardwork,respect ,honesty is was has pushed our country into an abyss.We cannot continue to have leaders who squander 7 billion of tax payers money on sects.We cannot accept to be incessantly be witnesses to the murder of clergymen ,who are supposed to work for the moral welbeing of our youths.The way forward is that we must keep inculcating into our youths the virtues of hardwork.
There`s no way forward for vain promises,
a life of ease.If the Cameroonian youth has prefered to seek for greener pastures else where,it is because they understand this.It is better to keep away from certain things than to bare their gruesome impact.

vito

Man's spirituality cannot be seperated from his reason intellect or actions.Infact the spiritual superceeds the physical and the intellectual,so appointment or election to high office doesnt imply and cannot guarantee abandonment of the spiritual.It hasnt happened anywhere and it wont happen in Africa.We just have to choose from the paoply of spiritual leanings existing or create ours ,then institutionalise it.America chose masonry and their very constitution is masonic.We had our various shrines and oracles before the coming of the missionaries which in most cases were distinct from the executive.The christian missionaries labelled it pagan;as it was indeed pagan with respect to theirs,and set forth to sideline and destroy it while tacitly imposing theirs.I must add that the muslims did same in several parts of Africa.We lacked the werwithal to sustain ours and it is logically eroding off.
It being only natural that whosever controls the mind will control the body,leaders are then imposed on us by these dominating spiritual forces and we cant hope its for our good.
Since we cant possibly ask any prospective leader to declare their spiritual adherence or convictions in a free community it goes without saying that we should expect anything from our present and future leaders as they'll all be guided by their spirituality.
On the other hand we could institutionalise just one and then draw up our constitution based on it like the freemasonic americans did;then there will be some semblance of a durable and consistent order with enough freedom to contain the existence of the others within the confines of the law and contitution.At any rate that's what obtains in america and we cant say its not serving them well.
To me we could "all see with one eye" or trust in the Lord Jesus even if we cant "see" Him.I vote for the latter.Thanks

vito

It is also worth mentioning that masonry and rosicrucianism are both off-shoots of Christianity corrupted by the cabala.

Akoson

Good discussions there Ma Mary, Watesih, Vito and the rest. I enjoin many others who've got wealthy ideas about ocultism and its effects on Africa and Cameroon politics in particular, especially those who've read African and Western Philosophy to come on board and educate some of us who may be blank about all this story!

Vito, I vote you!

Uh...Ma Mary, the church and the state must always coexist! How? Now you know, one's belief is what guides them. And whether you like to acknowledge it or not, once you're elected or appointed to a post of responsibility, your beliefs may directly or indirectly affect your job in one way or the other. That may sound the bitter reality to you! That's why FranceAfric's still suffering from the rape of the French. They've implanted high level ocultists in Africa who practice their rosy crux beliefs.

Ma Mary, you claim to respect all religions. So you equally respect Paganism. Well, that's your right to your opinion anyway! Even in the US where you live, its constitution begins with God...and even the motto says "In God we trust". Why doesn't this respect paganism whose followers don't even believe there's a God? I thought the constitution is for, and respects every segment of the people, even the minority...I may not prove paganism or some other religions are the minority...they may even be the majority. After all out of the over 350 million Americans, howmany of them believe there's a God?

Mmmmmm Watesih, does the Chinese constitution begin with the name of God? I may learn a new thing from you!

May we try to relate this discusions to Cameroon politics please?

The Son!

rexon

I will like to remind those who have constantly reminded me of digression and showing off that the debate here is about the creation of an election commision that is not independent by Mr Biya's junta and not about sects or something of the kind. Nonetheless, i thank u all for the very interesting commentaries that have somehow be helpful.

Mr Biya have every right to create whatever commision he wants. He is the King of Kings of La Republique. I hope he will not bring any of his election boxes to the Southern Cameroons. This time in the North West, we should not reduced our people to handclappers in Mr Biya's parliament. We of the North West would end up being the laughing stock to Camerounese citizens. We keep talking in the name of an opposition, leading the chase of Mr Biya out of power and at thesame time, legitimising Mr Biya's colonial junta through handclapping in its parliament where majority of seats for the opposition is from our own province. The solution is for us to boycott everything that has been imposed on us that we can boycott. That includes La Republique's parliament.

Ma Mary

Dear Akoson - there is no such religion or form of spiritual belief as "paganism". Paganism is a term invented by the Christians of old to describe those belief systems that were at variance with the Judeo Christian. The ancient Kmetics (Egypt) had highly developed religion and morals and justice. You had to have had one for a system to last more than 10,000 years continuously. They could not be described as Christian. There are literally dozens of examples of preChristian societies that were governed very well, and were prosperous. I can also give a few Christian societies that were governed very well and were fair.

But, for the most part, because of the belief by Christians that theirs is the only way (exactly like the Muslims), there is a serious streak of intolerance in Christianity that leads inevitably to conflict with dissenters within the religion (heretics), those who give up the religion entirely (apostates) and those with a non-christian spiritual foundation (pagans and infidels). I worry that you otherwise reasonable people lose your bearings and succumb to the propaganda of your Christian upbringing. There are two myths of which to dispense:

1) that a moral society is not possible without Christianity
2) that a just and free society requires Christianity.

This is false, and there is tons of data to support that statement.

Greed was at the basis of the transatlantic slave trade and colonialism, but religion (Christianity) was its facilitator. They claimed that they wanted to "save" our souls whether we wanted it or not. For centuries, Europe was at war with itself and its neighbours in the world. A huge chunk of those wars were pushed by different shades of Christianity battling each other for dominance. The decoupling of religion from governance and the coupling of governance to constitutional rule (law) has saved a lot of lives.


To answer your question, Akoson. Lets have a just constitutional order and let people practice whatever including African traditions (in your parlance, paganism). But if you beat your wife, because it is some part of some tradition, it would be a crime, because you transgressed on her constitutional and human rights. If you broke the shrine to some African ancestor, because it offends your Christianity, it would also be a crime. You do not religion for a society to require that you cannot have sexual relations with minors. Even with a lifetime of religious indoctrination, there are people who violate this with alarming frequency and then turn around to say that God has forgiven them because they are Christians. Just check the news, the stories are there.

If there is one lesson from history, it is that government by men (divine right of kings) is a failure. Government by religion - unfree. Government by laws works, as long as those laws are fair,just and humane. Christianity was used to subjugate us. Now we are louder than those who brought it and we are still trying to use it without reflection. Religions most be protected from each other and we must protect ourselves from religion, while giving religion freedom, the freedom to speak and to convince. The power to coerce must not be given to religion. It has a very bad track record of using that kind of power or coerce.

The American constitution used the word God in a different context than you might think. They believed that the world and the universe was created by a God, but they were not prescribing Christianity or any other religion.

Ma Mary

Here are a few words from the American founders to complete my point. Akoson, there is a reason why Jefferson mentions God, but not Jesus or Mohammed or Obatala in the US constitution:

I have examined all the known superstitions of the Word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world ...

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind ... to filch wealth and power to themselves. [They], in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.
Thomas Jefferson

The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes; fools and hypocrites. To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson

Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins ... and you will have sins in abundance. I would not dare to dishonor my Creator's name by [attaching] it to this filthy book [the Bible].
Thomas Paine

For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate error so long as reason is free to combat it.
Thomas Jefferson

It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God.
Thomas Jefferson

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
Thomas Paine

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.
Thomas Paine

My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.
Thomas Paine

Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religions.
George Washington

Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.
George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 726]

There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness.
George Washington, address to Congress, 8 January, 1790

Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause.
George Washington, letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792

...the path of true piety is so plain as to require but little political direction.
George Washington, 1789, responding to clergy complaints that the Constitution lacked mention of Jesus Christ, from The Godless Constitution: The Case Against Religious Correctness, Isacc Kramnick and R. Laurence Moore W.W. Norton and Company 101-102

If they are good workmen, they may be from Asia, Africa or Europe; they may be Mahometans, Jews, Christians of any sect, or they may be Atheists....
George Washington, to Tench Tighman, March 24, 1784, when asked what type of workman to get for Mount Vernon, from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover

...I beg you be persuaded that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution. George Washington, to United Baptists Churches of Virginia, May, 1789 from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover

As the contempt of the religion of a country by ridiculing any of its ceremonies, or affronting its ministers or votaries, has ever been deeply resented, you are to be particularly careful to restrain every officer from such imprudence and folly, and to punish every instance of it. On the other hand, as far as lies in your power, you are to protect and support the free exercise of religion of the country, and the undisturbed enjoyment of the rights of conscience in religious matters, with your utmost influence and authority.
George Washington, to Benedict Arnold, September 14, 1775 from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover

Watesih

Hi Akoson,
I don`t know the year i will want to come an inch close to the Chinese constitution,but you know as i do that the Chinese are basically worshippers of idols.So in case of talking about God in the constitution,which God would they choose?
Akoson,the mention of "In God we Trust.." in the American constitution does not prescribe christianity or any religion as Ma Mary rightly says,but it clearly gives the idea that it is with the wisdom of God that Politicians can deliver the goods.These Politicians can only constantly be appraised of this wisdom if they listen to those who preach the word of God.That is why the Puritan tradition had ,and still has such a strong appeal.

Rexon,
Stop that your usual little game of hit and run.All ideas here have an audience.
By the way,you and Fritzane were the only two who continued chewing your lips about the SDF,and wrote about 4 writeups each when the UB crises were at their peak,despite your claim not to be interested in what is being done in the SDF.It seems you want to prescribe the way people have to go about things here,but that can`t work.Anyway if you want to be updated about what is unravelling in the National Assembly in Yaounde,here we go!!
The government tabled two bills for the creation of ELECAM,and the SDF Parliamentary group immediately tabled a counter motion,which mostly included a draft of the Bishops version of the IEC,and the SDF`s draft that was presented to the Prime Minister the other day.According to the standing order of the House,these motions deposited by the SDF were supposed to be debated first ,because they are reservations brought against the draft tabled by government. The government gave a deaf ear to the SDF,and started reading an adoption of the bills on the IEC without due debate.
The SDF MPs opened their microphones ,and read theirs simultaneously,but the RDPC hitmen adopted these bills under this uproar.So Mr Biya has just shown us that even in 2011 ,they are going to unilaterally present another scam like this to impose a candidate of their choice.

Mbu.B

Very educative,Ma Mary.

Informative, Watesih.

Think the post should have a special recognition for you all writing...UNTAINTED TRUTH

Akoson

Watesih,

You got it a lil wrong there! I didn't say that the writing of "In God we trust..." some where shows adherence to a particular religion. No I didn't say that! But I said it shows believe in a supreme being, something Ma Mary despises.

....I'm coming!

tayong

...about the religion issue.


The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins.

From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania, and read: I quote

"Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances.
One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.

This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters"...end of quote

So this was no doubt a result of American peoples' views passed acrossed to govt through their leaders(puritans). They strongly believed (even today) that a nation that recognizes God would be strong and vibrant(rightly so) and that which relegates God to a second place is weak and poor.

Its true that State and religion should be separated to give everyone the fair chance but taking a look at major constitutions through out the world before the "conscience liberator" of the free world took these consitutions all over the world hostage , you'll discover that the very canons of those constitutions came from either the bible , the quoran or some form of God fearing embodiment , so I agree with Americans that any nation that forgets God is bound for the abyss. If Biya and co were Godfearing we "may" not have been where we are. This is not to say all God fearing people in leadership are good,far from that.

Tayong


Watesih

Tayong,
Thanks indeed!That is succint,and it updates us on what actually transpired.

Akoson,
You are absolutely right,i misconstrued your take.

Watesih

DID WE SAY ELECAM!

Lets start reading this document from the end.This because at the tail end ,Mr Biya`s cynicism comes to life when he says that he has the latitude to take all his time to put this structure in place.Article 42 of this thing void of substance says that all the competent electoral structures of the state are under the competence of the President, and that he can transfer this competence progressively to Elecam.What if he fails to do so?
Within the time being,ONEL and other competent state electoral structures (MINADT?)will continue to exercise their functions which have not yet been transfered to Elecam.What if these powers are never tranferred ?
Ideas about this thing called Elecam can be put in point form:

1. When the members of an independent structure are known,the structure votes its bureau.But our Elecam sees its members appointed by Mr biya.
2. Membership should be equitably distributed between state representatives,
and those of the Opposition ,and Civil society.But Mr Biya by appointing the leaders of Elecam,and its members has shown that he is out for another election hostage taking.
3. It is during its first deliberations that the Commission composed of the various components of the society elects its bureau.
4. The Commission largely represented thus recruits its personnel,but we are told Mr Biya will even appoint the Director,and Assistant Director of Elections.
5. Rather than organise elections,Elecam is said to undertake verification ,and controls that the body deems necessary.So another structure organises elections,and Elecam controls.
6. Instead of Publishing the election results,Elecam makes highlights all the predictions/figures got during voting.Can Biya ever pay credence to others` figures? The answer is blowing in the wind!
7. Instead of publishing the electoral list,Elecam makes sure that the lists of the members of voting stations are published.So Mrs Elecam will not have a grasp of anything on the electoral lists.Biya`s hitmen can therefore ferry in voting caravans,dead,and ghost voters.
8. Instead of putting in place electoral material , Mrs Elecam only controls the putting in place of electoral material ,and documents.So Mrs Elecam will not be the body to make sure candidates ballot papers are available,and enough.

Ma Mary

Watesih, this ugly Madam Dictatorship trying on the clothes of Ms Democracy and putting lots of make up. Any person with good eyesight can see that it is a farce.

BTW, Biya's anticorruption drive is already over. They will try Ondo Ndog and imprison him for a short while, meanwhile the wheels of corruption continue without disruption.

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