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« Law Without Boundaries:Preliminary Inquiry | Main | Yaounde Intervenes In Mbella Moki, Motomby Quarrel »

Monday, 22 January 2007

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M Nje

"Dear Jehovah Witnesses, as you allow your children to enjoy your neat church premises, allow them to enjoy school in order to shame illiteracy and contribute genuinely to nation building."

“What is puzzling is that they willingly register in existing institutions of learning and healing and fight to impose their beliefs by disregarding clauses of internal rules and regulations.”


Thank you Poubom Lamy Ney for your analysis. You said it all especially in quotations above. These parents are destroying the future of their children. It is even disturbing for a parent to support and encourage a child to be rude, arrogant, and disrespectful to school authorities. That is not what Christ came to teach.

These are a few FANATICS who are destroying the image of their religion.

katakata

TO VITO: A CALL TO UPDATE OUTDATED BINOCULARS.

AN IMPAIRMENT OF THE MAGNIFYING ABILITY OF OUR NATURAL OCULAR LENSES CALLS FOR CONCERN.

THIS IS A NOTE FROM KATAKATA THE SURGEON STILL ON LEAVE.


THE LOVE FOR HUMANITY HAS MOVED ME TO CURTAIL MY PLEASURE TRIP TO PLANET MARS AND HEARKEN TO THE CALL I TOOK WHEN RECITING THE HYPOCRATIC OATH TO PRACTICE MEDICINE.... BUT THANKS TO THE MARVELS OF TECHNOLOGY, I SHALL NOT RETURN TO EARTH NOW. I SHALL SIMPLY CARRY OUT THE OPERATION ON THE MAIMED OCULAR OF VITO'S RIGHT EYE....

A DAMAGED EYE? WHAT HAPPENED? AN ACCIDENT?
DONT CRY WE SHALL FIX IT FOR YOU..WE SHALL SHINE YOUR EYES FOR YOU.

TRUE THE LITTLE GIRL IS NO ROSA PARKS...SHE DOESNT EVEN WISH TO BE IDENTIFIED WITH ACTIVISTS .SHE WISHES TO GO BY UNNOTICED.BUT THE PRINCIPAL PUSHED HER TO THE FORE, AND TODAY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HER..TAINTING HER NAME, HER FAMILY AND HER RELIGION..HOW DARE WE!

DO YOU REMEMBER THE PRAYES YOU SAID BEFORE MEALS(GRACE B4 MEALS) AND THE PRAYERS YOU SAID AT THE CLOSE OF THE SCHOOL DAY IN PRIMARY SCHOOL....

OH! I FORGOT ABOUT UR IMPAIRED VISION.
NOW LISTEN TO THIS SHORT VERSES:

GRACE BEFORE MEALS:

"BLESS US OH LORD
AND THIS THY GIFT
WHICH WE ARE GOING TO RECEIVE
FROM THY GOODNESS
THROUGH CHRIST OUR LORD,AMEN.

PRAYER AT THE CLOSE OF THE SCHOOL DAY:

" NOW THE DAY IS OVER
NIGHT IS DRAWING NEAR
SHADOWS OF THE EVENING
PULL ACROSS THE SKY, AMEN!

VITO,'
DO YOU REMEMBER THOSE TWO PRAYERS? I WOUDLNT TASK YOU IF YOU DIDNT..IT IS POSSIBLE YOU WERE NEVER PRESENT IN CLASS OR DODGED BEFORE CLOSING TIME...

"NURSE. GIVE HIM ANOTHER SHOT OF PAIN KILLER"

VITO DO YOU SEE BETTER NOW? AM I JUST A BLUR BEFORE YOUR EYES..THEN RELAX

TELL ME VITO, IF A MUSLIM CHILD WAS IN THAT CLASS AND REFUSED TO SAY THE GRACE BEFORE MEALS, WOULDNT IT BE RIGHT FOR HIM TO ASK FOR AN EXCEPTION NOT TO TAKE PART IN THIS PRAYER BASED UPON HIS MUSLIM UP BRINGING? WOULD YOU CONDEMN HIM AND FORCEFULLY CATHOLICIZE HIM WITH CREEDS AND BELIEFS THAT MAKE NO SENSE TO HIM??

OPEN THAT EYE OF YOURS AND TELL ME WHAT LETTERS YOU SEE ON MY BLIND TEST BOARD.

THIS CHILD IS NOT SUPPOSED TO FIGHT FOR EQUALITY BEFORE THE LAW..I THINK THE DIFFERENT REACTIONS ON THIS FORUM POINT TO THE FACT THAT ALL ARE EQUAL BEFORE THE LAW, BUT THAT THE PRINCIPAL ABUSED HER AUTHORITY BY USING A SLEDGE HAMMER TO KILL A MOSQUITO.

OFCOURSE IT IS THE LAW THAT SHOULD PROTECT THE INDIVIDUAL'S RIGHT TO FULLY PRACTICE HER RELIGION. IF THE LAW ALREADY ALLOWS FREEDOM OF RELIGIOUS OPINIONS, THEN IT GOES WITHOUT CONTRADICTION THAT SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO REFUSE PRACTICES CONTRARY TO HER FAITH...

JEHOVAH,S WITNESSES WERE BANNED IN CAMEROON UNDER MALLAM'S REGIME. A GENTLEMAN CAME, PEERED INTO THE LAWS AND TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE BELIEFS ,DO'S AND DONTS OF THEIR FAITH, HE GAVE THEM LEGAL RECOGNITION..

OPEN YOUR EYES..DO YOU THINK THE PRESEIDENT IS IGNORANT OF ALL THESE? SO WHY SHOULD A PRINCIPAL TAKE BACK FROM THIS GIRL A PRECIOUS FREEDOM THAT THE HEAD OF STATE HAD GIVEN BACK TO THIS GROUP OF WORSHIPPERS?

WELL, THE GOOD THING ABOUT SUCH FORUMS IS THAT EVERYBODY CAN PARTICIPATE AND MADE HIMSELF HEARD..AND THE BAD THING ABOUT THIS FORUM IS THAT EVERYBODY PARTICIPATES AND SAYS THINGS THAT THEY SHOULDNT SAY WITHOUT SEARCHING OUT THE FACTS...

IN PASSING, I CHALLENGE THE PERSON WHO TALKED ABOUT BLOOD TRANSFUSION TO HOLD HIS BRAINS IN HIS HANDS AND SEE REASON FROM IT USING THIS SCENARIO:

A PATIENT IS TOLD TO REFRAIN FROM ALCOHOL.THIS SADDENS HIM.FROM HIS HOUSE, HE CAN SEE HIS REGULAR FRIENDS TAKING IN THE PRECIOUS LIQUID.BUT HE CANT TAKE IT FOR MEDICAL REASONS...THEN HE BRIGHTENS UP..HE HAS FOUND A SOLUTION TO HIS PROBLEM:

"THE DOCTOR TOLD ME NOT TO DRINK..BUT MY SYSTEM NEEDS ALCOHOL"

SO HE TAKES SOME BOTTLES AND GOES TO SEE HIS DOCTOR AT THE HOSPITAL AND TELLS THE DOCTOR:

"DR, I SHALL DRINK NO MORE, BUT PLEASE PUT THIS WHISKEY INTO MY SYSTEM USING A SYRINGE"

THE DOCTOR CONSIDERS HIM MAD AND ASKS:
"WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DRINKING WINE AND HAVING IT TRANSFUSED INTO YOU? I WONT BE THE ONE TO SEND YOU TO AN EARLY GRAVE"

THE MAN IS SAD AND RETURNS HOME, CREST FALLEN AT HIS OWN STUPIDITY.. THE ALCOHOL COMPONENT OF WINE ALTHOUGH TAKEN BY MOUTH ENDS UP BEING ABSORBED INTO THE CIRCULATORYB SYSTEM"

DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU?
LET ME EXPLAIN.

AT GENESIS 9:3-4 GOD TOLD NOAH TO EAT ALL ANIMALS BUT SHOULD NOT EAT BLOOD.
THE SAME LAW IS REPEATED BY THE APOSTLES AT 15:28-29.

NOW WHILE YOU MIGHT SAY THE LAW SAYS "DONT EAT BLOOD" AND DOESNT SAY" DONT TRANSFUSE BLOOD", IT WILL HELP YOUR MIND TO REMEMBER THAT WHILE WE NEED TO EAT THROUGH OUR MOUTHS TO KEEP ALIVE, THERE ARE EXTREME CASES WHERE THE UNCONSCIOUS PATIENT IS "FED" THROUGH TUBES..WOULD YOU DENY THAT PATIENT HAS NOT BEEN FED SIMPLY BECAUSE IT WAS GIVEN TO HIM INTRAVENOUSLY???

WHEN WITNESSES REFUSE BLOOD, IT IS GOOD TO KNOW THAT AS INTEGRITY KEEPERS THEY PREFER TO DIE THAN BREAK ANY OF GOD'S LAWS..AND THIS IS NOT JUST A BLAND STANCE AS JESUS RIGHTLY SAID AT MARK 8:34-35 THAT THE PERSON WHO BREAKS THE LAW TO SAVE HIS LIFE WOULD LOSE IT...

HOW ABOUT BREAKING GOD'S LAW ON YOUR DEATH BED , WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF MAKING UP FOR YOUR ERRORS??..EVEN HUMANS TRAVEL LONG DISTANCES TO COME AND RECONCILE WITH THOSE ON DEATH ROW...SO WOULD YOU PRETEND THAT IT IS BEST FOR A CHRISTIAN TO BREAK GOD'S LAW AND PERHAPS STILL DIE AFTER THE TRANSFUSION?????

FIGURE THAT OUT FOR YOURSELF-.'

VITO, I SHALL CONTINUE YOUR OPERATION TOMORROW IF YOU DONT SHOW ANY SIGNS OF RECOVERING FROM THIS SHORT SIGHTEDNESS..
SLEEP WELL


vito

Hi Dr.Katakata,hope you dont spend your time drinking formol and methylated spirit there in your surgery because,its either you're drunk or you need that surgical procedure more than i do.Sleep it off ,then we talk about it tomorrow.Thanks

espoir

mr.Poubom is wirting from a one sided perspective because he understands little or nothing about the teachings of the bible.
yes,Jesus said give on to Ceasae whats due for him.this he meant taxes and other dues but it didnt mean that his followers should settle for circumstances where by they give allegence to nations and kings to the determined of the almighty God.this is were this little girl is coming from.this issue is very complex but easy to be dealed with. if law makers just take a chance to understand where this people are coming from.then we can understand how to co-excit with this so called religious fanatics by respecting their religious believes, so long as it has no effect on others.because as far as am concerned, this Jehovah withnesses principles and believes are harmless.the bottom line is the believe that they have to demonstrate to all degree of faithfullness that they donot honour any human or political organisation above the almighty Jehavah.that doesnt mean that they wouldnt pay their taxes or pay other state dues,because they are obliged to give on to caesae what due to him and give on to the almighty what due to him, which is nothing than worshipping him and not the state.According to them, God is the king worth worshipping and his kingdom is the only kingdom worth praising and i was also amased when one told me that they are not proud to be cameroonians or what ever nation but would be proud to be a citizen of Gods kingdom.lets not mixe religion and politics.lets try to understand their idealogies.we might not accept them but we have a duty to co excit with their biblical believes,after-all there harmless according to me.
on the issue of blood,i watched a documentary depicting the pledge of Jehovahs withnesses religious believes of no blood tranfusion which they believe and say its clearly written in the book of ACTS that "stay away from blood".and doctors on the other hand have a duty to respect their patients cultures and believes.and this refusal of blood by Jehovah withnesses have caused doctors to go on adapting a "no blood tranfusion medication"and top doctors all over the world are hoping for a total no blood transfusion medication and surgring.this is a well documented piece of info and sceintist are folowing the trend of no blood transfusion and lives are not being lost.it works and its the new medical trend.peace all.

Mclims

Dear Poubom,
I am not sure I have witnessed anything that filled and rekindled me as your piece. I was shocked at the number of people who wrote in acclamation of the little form two girl. Anyway, I appreciate it with respect bros.
I will equally like my friend Dr. Katakata to read these paragraphs of the holy scripture.
Take a look at the song of Azariah, just after the Prophet Jeremiah in some bibles. Azariah was the original name of Abednego, read through his song of praise and tell me what you have seen contrary to your views. Equally, in the case of these guys, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, they were forced to give respect to an object, that was revered as god. Anyway take a look at this too:

Ezekiel: 5:5-8ff
Sirach 21:9 quote
" A group of people who have no respect for the law is like a pile of kindling, they will meet a fierry end"

Go back to Daniel 3:8ff

and many of you who shun the old testament, take a look at the letter of PAul to the Romans 13:1-6ff

After you are done, come back to me and tell us your opinion.

Thanks very much Lamy.

Mclims

Mclims

Katakata, thanks very much for the effort put in place to get this poem revised. I should first and foremost ask, if you based your appreciation on personal thoughts of guide notes that the authour used. Anyway, get my transcription in Italics. I may not be as learned, or you may think getting yourself to the base brings wit into it all, thanks for taking the stance anyway.

O Cameroon, Thou Cradle of our Fathers,
OH! CAMEROON, YOU ARE THE ORIGIN OF OUR FATHERS

Mclims: cradle for birthplace or abbot, origin will mean a whole lot but the poem talks of birthplace

Holy Shrine where in our midst they now repose,
OUR ANCESTORS RESIDE WITHIN YOU, MAKING YOU A PLACE WORTHY OF WORSHIP

Mclims: holy shrine, here talks about the graves or tombs of those that were worth fame, that are present within

Their tears and blood and sweat thy soil did water,
THEY SUFFERED AND SACRIFICED THEIR LIVES FOR YOU

Mclims: their blood and tears and sweat dropped on thy soil

On thy hills and valleys once their tillage rose.
ON YOUR HILLS AND VALLEYS WHERE THEY ONCE FARMED

Mclims: okay

Dear Fatherland, thy worth no tongue can tell!
DEAR ANCESTRAL LAND, NOBODY CAN MEASURE YOUR WORTH

Mclims: the worth or a land no tongue can tell, just as it makes it clear in the bible no tell can describe the art of creation, the land in question being a creation.

How can we ever pay thy due?
HOW CAN WE PAY BACK OUR DEBTS OH ANCESTORS?

Mclims: No, how can we pay back for the sacrifice you did us make. You gave your lives for us to gain independence. Thus what can we do to pay back: respect to the nation they faught to build

Thy welfare we will win in toil and love and peace,
YOUR WELFARE WE SHALL ENSURE IN TOIL, AND LOVE AND PEACE

Mclims: we shall toil, and love, with peace being the watch word to maintain the position you put us in: ie the welfare

Will be to thy name ever true!
WE WILL REMAIN EVER TRUE TO YOUR NAME!

Mclims: what ever it is we achieve we always shall thank you for the initial sacrifice you made

Chorus:
Land of Promise, land of Glory!
OH PROMISED LAND! OH LAND OF GLORY!

Thou, of life and joy, our only store!
YOU, LIFE GIVER, JOY GIVER, YOU OUR ONLY PROVIDER

Mclims: nothing like life giver; you are the store of our joy and life.

Thine be honour, thine devotion,
TO YOU BE OUR HONOUR AND OUR DEVOTION

Mclims: Honour to the patriots and devotion to the nation

And deep endearment, for evermore
AND OUR DEEP LOVE FOR EVER AND EVER.

Mclims: we shall hold you in high esteem till we pathways too.

My Friend Katakata, do you now see we share different views and a third person will have a contrary view.

Danny Boy

My dear friend Poubom,
it is true that some top surgeons can operate as you stated, but have you thought of cases resulting from accidents where patients have lost so much blood? You and I know that a transfusion would in many of these cases save lives. Would you advise the doctor not to administer this simple operation on your relative because of his/her belief?
What of children and minors who are dragged into this faith? What is their informed consent on this matter? This is the debate we must carry to these bible spouting evangelists. I do not care if they do not respect the State and what it stands for, my worry is that their children might be suffering in silence. These children are not just theirs, they belong to the State. They are our brothers and sisters.

katakata

DEAR DANNY BOY,
ITS NICE YOU MADE COMMENTS ON BLOOD.THIS IS AN INDICATION THAT THERE IS NEED FOR INFORMATION ON THE SUBJECT.

MAY WE USE THIS FORUM TO INFORM AND BE INFORMED AS WELL OF WHAT WE KNOW AND DO NOT KNOW.

WHEN THERE IS AN ACCIDENT, THE FIRST THING TO BE DONE IS TO STOP THE BLEEDING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. TRANSFUSION IS NOT THE IMMEDIATE CONCERN OF THE DOCTOR.

SECONDLY, THERE ARE WHAT WE CALL BLOOD NOLUME EXPANDERS, SIMPLE SALINE WHICH IS INTRODUCED INTO THE ARTERIES TO MINIMISE BLOOD LOSS, AND AS YOU KNOW LIFE IS LOST WHEN BLOOD CARRYING OXYGEN TO THE CELLS AND TISSUES IS LESS THAN WHAT THE CELLS NEED.SO INFORMED DOCTORS INTRODUCE MERE SALINE(SALT WATER)INTO THE ARTERIES THEREBY "INCREASING BLOOD VOLUME" AND THIS ÅROCESS SPEEDS UP THE NORMAL CIRCULATION OF RED BLOOD CELLS AND LIFE IS PRESERVED.

WHAT ABOUT A SITUATION WHERE BLEEDING CANNOT BE STOPPED ? PUTTING ANOTHER PERSONS BLOOD ONLY GOES TO SQUEEZE OUT THE PATIENTS OWN BLOOD, AND AS THE PROCESS IS REPEATED, THE PATIENT FINALLY LOSES ALL OF HIS OWN BLOOD, AND YET CONTUNUES BLEEDING OUT THE TRANSFUSED BLOOD.

THE SOLUTION HERE IS TO GIVE BLOOD VOLUME EXPANDERS THAT MINIMISE BLOOD LOSS, AND NOT TO INTRODUCE ANOTHER "HEAVY LIQUID" THAT WOULD ONLY PUSH OUT THE PATIENT'S OWN BLOOD.

DONT FORGET ALSO THE RISKS OF HIV INFECTION THROUGH TRANSFUSION. YOU CAN BE A CARRIER OF THE VIRUS FOR JUST 1 WEEK, AND SINCE THE INCUBATION PERIOD FOR THE VIRUS IS 2WEEKS UPWARDS, YOUR BLOOD SHALL BE OKAYED AND GIVEN TO SOME ONE WHO WILL LATER BE INFECTED BY VIRTUE OF THE "PURE BLOOD" GIVEN HIM.

READ BROADLY ON BLOODLESS SURGERY AND BLOODLESS MEDICINE , AND YOU SHALL COME TO APPREDIATE THE WISDOM OF HE THAT SAID

" thou shall not eat blood"

FINALLY, MEDICAL SCIENCE CAN ONLY PROBE AND PROVE THE KNOWN..THE UNKNOWN IS LEFT TO CHANCE..AND ONE BLOOD TRANSFUSION SHALL MAKE ONE REGRET THE REST OF HIS LIFE...THAT IS WHY PARENTS DECIDE WHAT TREATMENT THEY WANT FOR THEIR CHILDREN..

IF YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER CHOOSE WHAT DRESS TO BUY FOR YOU UNTIL YOU ARE 15 YEARS, IS THERE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT?? DRESSES DO NOT ITCH OR CAUSE US TO FALL SICK, AND YET WE DONT MAKE A GREAT DEAL OUT OF MUM AND DAD'S DECISION ON THAT MATTER.

WHEN IT CONCERNS THE HEALTH OF THE SAME CHILDREN, SHOULDNT WE EXPECT THE SAME MUM AND DAD TO MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS THAT ARE GOOD FOR THE CHILD??

GIVE THIS A THOUGHT!!!

Muki StoneHall

Cameroon is supposed to be a country governed by a constitution and written laws and not by religious doctrines.

Is there any Law in Cameroon which states that it is a crime not to sing the National Anthem?.If so,what penalty does the law prescribe for defaulters?

During international matches,many players maintain very tight lips during the singing of the National Anthem.Have they been dismissed from their National teams?

If the Cameroonian law is silent on the issue of singing the National Anthem,then Mrs Principal erred in dismissing the child.

State laws should not be looked at through religious lenses.State laws and religious doctrines should not be mixed or confused.

katakata

KUDOS TO SOMEONE REASONABLE

DEAR MUKI,

IT IS NICE TO HAVE YOUR CONTRIBUTION ON THE FORUM.
I WILL MAKE DIRECT REFERENCE TO YOUR LAST SENTENCE WHICH READS THUS:

"State laws and religious doctrines should not be mixed or confused."

MOST CONTRIBUTORS TO THIS FORUM ARE BLIND TO THIS TRUISM. BUT FOR THOSE WHO LOVE TO LEARN BEYONG THIS FORUM, I REQUEST THEM TO READ ELLIOT,S " MURDER IN THE CATHEDRAL".

LET THE WISDOM IN THAT SIMPLE BOOK SERVE AS A NEUTRAL ARBITER HERE ON THIS TOPIC OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE STATE VERSUS ALLEGIANCE TO GOD. THEY SHOULD KNOW IN ADVANCE THAT THE TWO DONT MIX TOGETHER. WHY? BECAUSE WHAT OBTAINS TODAY IS NOT GOD,S IDEA OF WHAT A STATE SHOULD BE.

KUDOS TO YOU MUKI FOR BRINGING IN THIS LIGHT.

IN A COUNTRY WHERE EVEN THE JURISTS DONT KNOW WHICH LAWS TO ENFORCE (ENGLISH OR FRENCH LAWS) WITHIN AN ANGLOPHONE SETTING, THERE IS BOUND TO BE CONFUSION.

IN PASSING, I CALL UPON MADAM PRINCIPAL TO DO THIS FORUM THE FAVOUR OF BRINGING OUT EVEN A TEXT, OR BY-LAW FROM HER SCHOOL WHICH SANCTIONS NON SINGING OF THE ANTHEM. SHE SHALL ALSO DO JUSTICE TO HER IMAGE BY TELLING THE PUBLIC HOW MANY TIMES SOMEONE SHOULD BREAK BOUNDS TO MERIT A DISMISSAL.

THOSE WHO COME FROM SAJOSCOL SHOULD BE PATIENT..LET THEM UNDERSTAND THAT LAWS IN SASSE AS A MISSION SCHOOL ARE DIFFERENT FROM LAWS BINDING PUBLIC SCHOOLS.


THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT WE DONT FULLY GRASP THE DIFFERENT CONCEPTS OF GOVERNANCE. IF WE DID, THEN WE WOULD EASILY SITUATE WHAT OBTAINS IN CAMEROON: IS IT A DEMOCRACY,AN AUTHOCRACY, COMMUNISM, AUTHORITARIAN RULE, OR IS IT A THEOCRACY?

WHILE WE MIGHT HAVE VESRIONS OF THE 1ST FOUR TYPES SEAMLESSLY OPERATING IN CAMEROON, THEOCRACY STANDS APART FROM THE REST.IT IS INVIOLATE AND DOES NOT YIELD ITSELF TO CRITICISM.

GENTLEMEN, AS MUKI RIGHTLY SAID, THE LAPSUS BY THE LEGAL INSTITUTIONS TO MAKE THIS MATTER CLEAR HAS GREATLY CONTRIBUTED TO THIS CONFUSION.

GOOD NITE

Fon

Dear Katakata,
"BUT FON, HOW CAN U DARE COMPARE STABBING WITH A SURGICAL INTERVENTION? GO BACK TO A.S HORNBY OR WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY AND FIND OUT THE MEANING OF THE TERMS "SURGERY" AND "STAB"."
BUT Katakata, HOW CAN U DARE COMPARE eating WITH transfusion? GO BACK TO A.S HORNBY OR WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY AND FIND OUT THE MEANING OF THE TERMS "eat" AND "transfusion".

I said you used logic because of your example of alcohol.
God does not certify the eating of blood. However, eating of blood and blood transfusion for the purpose of saving life can´t be compared.

You have even acknowledged that a patient can die due to the act of surgery, on the other hand can a patient die simply because of the act of blood transfusion?

Katakata, surgery can sometimes lead to accidental murder. Does God accept accidental killing? But remember that the process of blood transfusion cannot independently lead to death.

Big Joe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZrK_kOk8Lw&mode=related&search=

nahjela

The laws of a school do not necessarily have to be derived from the laws of the state. That's why different schools have differing laws. If one of the rules and regulations of the school is to sing the national anthem, then it should be respected and it is at the liberty of the school lawmakers to met out the appropriate punishment when this is not the case, be it dismissal or 1 week suspension with hard labour. It rests on the school constitution. Weti state law cam find for dey nko?

Danny Boy

Hi Katakata, you seem to have read well on this subject but you still failed to grasp the point I made. I talked of patients who had lost so much blood following an accident. Not bleeding casualties.
Being baptised or inducted into a cult at a tender age is not synonymous with providing the child with basic humanitarian needs! Come on guy we are talking of life or death issues here. I am talking of the child's human rights as proscribed by the U.N Charter.

katakata

WHEN WORDS FAIL....

DANNY BOY,
CAN YOU PLEASE TAKE UP YOUR PENCIL,RULER AND PAPER AND DRAW A CLEAN LINE FOR ME THAT DISTINGUISHES :

"patients who had lost so much blood following an accident FROM bleeding casualties.? "

LOGICALLY OR MATHEMATICALLY, THEY BOTH HAVE LOST BLOOD AND NEED MEDICAL ATTENTION.DONT YOU AGREE?

A PERSON CAN LOSE BLOOD THROUGH AN ACCIDENT OR THROUGH HORMONAL IMBALANCES THAT INDUCE PROFUSE BLEEDING, LIKE IN THE CASE OF WOMEN AT CHILDBIRTH.

PLEASE DANNY BOY, YOU ARENT JUST A BOY TO LOSS SIGHT OF THIS FACT :

THAT YHE BOTTOM LINE OR COMMON DENOMINATOR BETWEEN THE TWO GROUPS OF PERSON YOU REFERE TO IS THAT

" THEY HAVE LOST CONSIDERABLE VOLUMES OF BLOOD AND HENCE NEED MEDICAL ATTENTION"

I WOULDNT DEFINE INDUCTION OR CULT FOR YOU.
BUT I WILL SIMPLY SAY THAT EVEN IN FRENCH THE EXPRESSION EMPLOYED MOST OFTEN TO SAY " I AM GOING TO CHURCH/SERVICE IS:

" JE M'ENVAIS AU CULTE"...AND THIS IS USED BY ALL DENOMINATIONS.

SO DONT GET EXCITED BY WORDS YOU HEAR..FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF THE MEANING OF THOSE WORDS.

WHEN WITNESSES PREACH AND MAKE DISCIPLES , AS COMMANDED BY JESUS AT MATTHEW 28:18-20, I DONT SEE WHY THAT SHOULD WORRY YOU. AFTER ALL THEY ARE JUST BEING OBEDIENT TO RESPOND POSITIVELY TO A COMMAND GIVEN BY THE LORD JESUS CHRIST..SO HOW IS THEIR RESPONDING TO THIS COMMAND SYNONYMOUS TO INDUCTION?

YOU FORGET YOUR BIBLE TEACHINGS SO FAST..BUT REMEMBER AGAIN THAT WHEN "BLIND, THOUGHTLESS DISCIPLES" WERE ABOUT SENDING CHILDREN AWAY , JESUS' RESPONSE TO THEM WAS FIRM AS YOU CAN READ FROM MATTHEW 19:23-14.

SO WHAT WRONG HAVE PARENTS DONE BY TEACHING CHILDREN THE WAYS OF GOD AS STATED AT DEUTERONOMY 6:5-7 ALLOWING THE BIBLE TO BE THEIR GUIDE?

ARE THE CHILDERN WRONG TO DECIDE BY THEMSELVES TO TAKE DECISIONS BASED UPON THE CORRECT TEACHINGS THEY LEARN FROM THE BIBLE.?

TRUE EVERY STATE HAS LAWS, AND IF MAN IS RULING BECAUSE HE IS ALLOWED BY GOD TO RULE, THEN HE SHOULD ALSO HAVE RESPECT FOR THE SUPERIOR AUTHORITY WHOSE LAWS OVER RULE ANY LAWS MADE BY MORTAL MAN AS ACTS 5: 28-29 POINTS OUT.

I DONT THINK YOU WOULD BE ANGRY WITH YOUR "DAUGHTER" IF SHE RESPECTED THE LAW AGAINST FORNICATION, ABORTION WILL YOU?

THE UN CAN TALK OF HUMAN RIGHTS..THATS GOOD ENOUGH..AND THAT RIGHT AS YOU MUST UNDERSTAND EXTENDS TO THE CHILD'S CHOSING HIS FORM OF WORSHIP AND FORM OF TREATMENT USING HIS/HER INFORMED CONSCIENCE..ONLY PERSONS WITH DEAD CONSCIENCES FIND EVERYTHING WRONG WITH DECISIONS MADE BY PERSONS WITH LIVING CONSCIENCES( NO OFFENSE INTENDED!)

LIFE AND DEATH ISSUES.?? DONT MAKE ME LAUGH..DOES THE BIBLE YOU READ AUTHORIZE THE WILLFUL ENDING OF YOUR LIFE BY SOME RELATIVE BECAUSE YOU ARE VERY SICK? THE ANSWER IS NO..THIS TYPE OF "SOCIALLY ACCEPTED MURDER" WAS VOTED AND PUT IN PLACE BY MAN WHO HAS LITTLE OR NO REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE..

SO LET NOT A REFUSAL OF BLOOD, WHICH IS BIBLICALLY SUPPORTED BE DOWNPLAYED TO THE ADVANTAGE OF MAN-MADE LAWS WHICH FOR THE MOST PART DO NOT REFLECT THE MORAL AND ETHICS OF GOD.

JUST AS ABRAHAM LINCOLN SAID:

"You can fool all of the people some of the time, and you can even fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

WE SHOULD WAIT AND SEE, IF ALL THE PRO AND COUNTER ARGUMENTS ON THIS FORUM BEAR ANY FRUIT, AND IF THEY DO, WE SHALL INDIVIDUALLY AND HONESTLY SAY IF WE WERE FOOLED SOMETIMES OR ALL THE TIME, AND BY WHO WERE WE FOOLED SOMETIMES, AND ALL OF THE TIME?

LETS WAIT AND SEE

katakata

WELCOME NAHJELA.

ITS NICE TO HAVE YOU IN HERE.
COULD YOU READ THE POSTING ADDRESSED TO DANNY BOY?

YOU SHALL FIND SOME EXPLANATIONS THAT MATCH YOUR QUERRY.

BUT IF YOU DONT HAVE THE PATIENCE TO GO THROUGH THAT POSTING, THEN HERE IS A PIECE FOR YOU:


" TRUE EVERY STATE HAS LAWS, AND IF MAN IS RULING BECAUSE HE IS ALLOWED BY GOD TO RULE, THEN HE SHOULD ALSO HAVE RESPECT FOR THE SUPERIOR AUTHORITY WHOSE LAWS OVER RULE ANY LAWS MADE BY MORTAL MAN AS ACTS 5: 28-29 POINTS OUT."

YOU ARE WELCOME AGAIN TO COMMENT ON THIS TIP.

BRIGHT DAY TO YOU

katakata

CARRY OUT SOME PERSONAL RESEARCH ON THE BIBLE AND FIND OUT HOW SOOTHING KNOWLEDGE IS.

TO EVERYBODY,
MISUNDERSTANDINGS ARISE FOR MANY REASONS.ON ONE HAND IT IS DUE TO IGNORANCE. SOMETIMES IT IS DUE TO THE "I KNOW EVERYTHING" MENTALITY. WHATEVER SHOULD BE THE CASE, IT IS WORTHWHILE LOOKING UP THINGS YOUR SELF AT YOUR LEISURE.

THAT IS MY REASON FOR USING MY LEAVE TO FORGET ABOUT SURGERIES AND PTHOLOGICAL COMPLICATIONS, AND INSTEAD CONCENTRATE ON SPIRITUALLY UP BUILDING ISSUES.

I DO NOT EXPECT "EVERYBODY" TO AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SHALL FIND HERE, BUT I HOPE THEIR WISDOM SHALL BE AUGMENTED SOMEWHAT...

LET'S AGREE TO DISAGREE, IF YOU WISH

AT JOHN 3:16 WE FIND THE MOST POPULAR SCRIPTURE LEARNT SINCE PRIMARY SCHOOL.

THEN THE SAME PERSONS FOR WHOM JESUS CAME AS MARK 2:17 TELLS US ARE THE ONES WHO KILLED HIM.

YES THEY PLOTTED AND KILLED A SINLESS MAN WHO CAME TO HELP THEM GAIN ETERNAL LIFE..THE PHARISEES DIDNT LIKE THE TONE OF HIS TRUTH

WHEN HE WENT TO JERUSALEM, JESUS WAS GREETED AS KING, BUT HE DECLINED THE CROWN..SOME WILL SAY HE ACCEPTED THE CROWN BY VIRTUE OF THE RECEPTION ACCORDED HIM WHICH HE DID NOT REJECT.

BUT THIS IS MADE CLEAR WHEN HE STOOD BEFORE PONTIUS PILATE WHO QUESTIONED HIM: '
"ARE YOU A KING?"
THE RESPONSE TO THIS QUESTION IS FOUND AT JOHN 19: 33-35

JEUS HIMSELF MADE CLEAR THE SOURCE OF HIS KINGSHIP AT JOHN 19:36 THAT HIS KINGDOM IS NO PART OF THIS WORLD .

FURTHERMORE, HE TESTIFIED TO GOD THAT HE GAVE HIS WORD TO THE DISCIPLES TO PREACH IT TO THE WORLD, BUT THAT THE WORLD REJECTED HIS DISCIPLES, WHY?? BECAUSE HIS DISCIPLES ARE NO PART OF THE WORLD BY THEIR ACTS AND THOUGHTS.

SHOULD WE THEN BE SURPRISED WHEN A HARMLESS SET OF PEOPLE HAPPILY WORSHIPPING GOD IN THE WAY STATED IN THE BIBLE ARE DECLARED AS " FANATICS AND HATERS OF THE PUBLIC GOOD?"

BUT WE SHOULDNT FORGET THIS SIMPLE POINT AT JOHN 13:16 THAT NO SLAVE IS GREATER THAN HIS MASTER.

IF THE MASTER JESUS WAS INSULTED AND ACCUSED OF HAVING A DEMON, SHOULD IT SURPRISE THE PUBLIC IF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES RECEIVE THE SAME INDICTIONS TODAY?

BY READING JOHN 17:13-16 MOST PERSONS WILL COME TO APPRECIATE WHY WITNESSES ARE NEUTRAL IN MOST MANIFESTATIONS CARRIED OUT IN THE SPIRIT OF THE WORLD, AND NOT TO THE GLORIFICATION OF GOD.

WISDOM IN THE BIBLE IS AT THE REACH OF ALL..YOU JUST NEED TO GET YOUR BIBLE FROM ITS LOFTY POISTION ON YOUR SHELVES, SHAKE OFF THE DUST ACCUMULATED OVER THE DECADES AND READ THE OPENING WORDS OF PSALMS 1:1-3 AND PSALMS 2:1-5.

HAPPY READING

ftroit

It beats my imagination that anyone will side with the principal's lawless and apparently lack-of-common-knowledge act. I am more surprised by this article. Have these people ever heard of FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS? FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHTS include religious freedom. Article 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights mentions the right to religious freedoms. Let's back up for a minute. Fundamental rights mean these rights are held by every human being just because they are a human being. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights has 30 articles and NONE, I MEAN NONE gives a government, (or a principal for that matter) to obligate anyone to do anything in contradiction to their religious believes. That is the main purpose of this "Fundamental Right" provided for by Article 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It should be noted that, not only is Cameroon a signatory to this Declaration, but this declaration is part of Cameroon's constitution in its preamble. And under the structure of Cameroon law: International laws are the top most legal source. Meaning any international law ratified by Cameroon's parliament and written into Cameroon law (signed by the president) such as the [Religious freedom Article 16] Declaration of Human Rights.

The principal's action of dismissing this student must be reexamined. In fact, the 2nd reason for her dismissal should equally be probed into. It is necessary to determine how many warnings a student needs to have been given before being dismissed for an action proscribed by the school code of conduct, and whether it was reached in this student's case.

I think this principal, not only is she unfit to be an administrator, but she is also unfit to be a tutor. I think Human Rights, not even all the human rights, but the basic ones contained in the Universal Declaration should be a starting point for this principal's re-education. She needs to take these classes. No, seriously, she does. Because it's really absurd. This action teaches our children to be intolerant when it comes to people's religious believes.

In fact, if we all have to think like the principal and others in this forum including the author of the above article, then we should ask ourselves what makes other Christians think December 25 or Assumption day and others should be religious holidays where government offices close. If we can respond to this question, then we can use the same soul searching rationale to figure out that religious freedoms are beyond and ABOVE any other obligations in a nation. Of course some stupid person is going to ask if people who kill other human beings in the name of religion are 'correct' to do so. The answer of course is no. the right to life goes with the obligation not to take another's life, which also, is a fundamental right. the test that has been applied is that practices should not go against other peoples' rights and freedoms and in most cases not repugnant to natural justice, good conscience and equity. Singing or not singin the national anthem does not infringe on anybody's freedom.

In civilizations where the Jehovah witness church exists, Jehovah's witnesses are NOT OBLIGATED to sing anthems or pledges. Case in point the USA.

The principal in this case needs to lose her job. in fact the courts need to step in and right this wrong. The family concerned here needs to contact a civil rights lawyer. In Cameroon another person who has no standing or 'interest' in the matter cannot bring suit, not even a civil rights suit, unless he/she can show how they've been affected.

I'm in to support a challenge in Court regarding this matter. If there is anyone coordinating matters here, may be someone who is in Cameroon, i'll be glad to contribute some how.

Danny Boy

My Dear Friend Katakata,
I am interested more in the medical ethics surrounding this transfusion debate than on matters of spliting hairs. When I talk of serious loss of blood I am also thinking of patients with severe anaemia, be they children or adults.
This is a debate that has been ongoing for quite a few years now. Can I refer you to a similar debate on this debate at the website www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/witnesses.
You can also search at BBC-Religion & Ethics-Jehovah Witnesses.
It would be interesting to hear your comments after listening to or reading what these persons had to say.
Have a good day too.

Kene

Mr Katakata,
your names says it all. You need to consult a Psychologist. A surgent denouncing Blood transfusion is like christain denouncing Jesus. You better stop all this "Katakata".
You relegious ideology is a degrace to a noble profession. I expected you to stand up and explain to those uninformed Jehova withness what blood transfusion is all about. You use your profession just to explain some possible outcome of blood transfusion. Even basic drugs have effects to the human system why do you prescribe them?
I will advice anyone on this forum to stay away from Mr Katakata's hospital if he intend to save life.
As concerns singing the national anthem. I believe this is the list you can do for a country like cameroon. In contries like Russia and Germany every male citizen is expected to serve in the military to show his patroitism. After going through all this comments I am still to find any verse in the Holy Book (Koran or Bible) which says singing the national antem is a sin.
Respect is is deserved an not awarded! If you don't respect my believe of signging the national anthem why should you keep you to contaminate the others? Please, to prevent the "tragedy of the commons" such student should be selected out of government institutions.

katakata

KENE
KENNETH
KENNEDY.........OH KENNY

"A surgeon denouncing Blood transfusion is like christian denouncing Jesus."

A CAREFUL EXAMINATION OF THE ABOVE QUOTE WILL PROVE THAT I PLAYED THE GAME OF FOUR ERRORS VERY WELL..I REMOVED THE MISPELT WORDS..HOPE YOU DONT TAKE OFFENSE..I TOO MAKE MY MISTAKES WHEN WRITING.

THE BEST IDEAS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DECLARED A DISGRACE BY A GENERATION DEVOID OF MORAL AND ETHICAL RESOURCES.

EVEN GOD WHO GIVES LIFE HAD A NOBLE REASON TO LET HIS SON SUFFER AND DIE LIKE A CRIMINAL..KENE, HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT ABOUT THIS AMBIGUITY, THAT THE SOVEREIGN OF THE UNIVERSE SHOULD LET HIS MOST BELOVED SON DIE A PAINFUL DEATH, AND YET DID NOTHING TO STOP THE CRIMINALS FROM KILLING HIM?

SINCE GOD REMAINS THE MOST EFFICIENT SURGEON THAT EVER EXISTED,...DOES IT MEAN GOD BETRAYED HIS POSITION AS LIFE GIVER BY ALLOWING JESUS DIE WITHOUT INTERVENING???

IT IS GOOD YOU RECOGNISE THERE EXIST "SOME POSSIBLE OUTCOMES" AFTER A TRANSFUSION.WOULD YOU DRINK GAMALENE IF YOU WERE INFORMED OF ITS POSSIBLE OUTCOMES?? GO TAKE A SHOT AND SLEEP FOR ETERNITY!!!!

BASIC DRUGS ARE POISONS, AND SHOULD BE TAKEN WITH CAUTION. THEY HAVE SIDE EFFECTS. NO ONE WILL BRAND YOU A MURDERER IF YOU THINK ASPIRINE IS BAD FOR YOUR SON BECAUSE OF HIS GASTRIC PROBLEMS. THE TIME YOU TAKE TO READ THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THE LEAFLET BEFORE GIVING TO YOUR SON SHOWS THE LOVE YOU HAVE FOR THE LATTER.

IF YOU AGREE DRUGS HAVE SIDE EFFECTS AND WONT USE THEM, WHY DONT YOU TELL YOUR FRIENDS THAT TRANSFUSION ALSO HAS SIDE EFFECTS AND HENCE DISCOURAGE THEM FROM IT??

YOU LISTEN TO MAN'S WARNINGS BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE HIM, BUT FEEL RELUCTANT TO LISTEN TO GOD'S OWN ADVICE BECAUSE YOU CANT SEE HIM, NOT SO??? OH! YE OF LITTLE FAITH THAT MUST WEE TO BELIEVE..CALL YOURSELF THOMAS.

IF YOU HAD EXPERIENCED DIFFERENT CULTURES, YOU WOULD SEE BLOOD PUDDING ON SALE IN SHOPS, AND PEOPLE RUSH AT IT WITH MUCH FRENZY..THAT IS NOT TRANSFUSION..BUT DOES THAT PROVE THEY HAVE REGARD FOR GOD'S LAW AGAINST EATING BLOOD???

IF THEY CANT CONTROL THEIR "LANGA" THEN THEY WILL FIND NOTHING WRONG WITH TRANSFUSIONS...

TELL ME KENE: YOU DI LANGA????

AN UNPRINCIPLED MAN IS LIKE A REED IN THE WIND TOSSED ABOUT BY THE DIFFERENT WIND CURRENTS..

DO YOU HAVE A PRINCIPLE OF YOURS CONCERNING EATING AND TRANSFUSION OF BLOOD?


DONT WORRY! YOU HAVE A CHOICE TO GO TO ANY SURGEON, AND THIS CHOICE IS A RIGHT EXERCISED BY EVERYONE..WHEN I RETURN FROM LEAVE I SHALL PUT A NOTICE ON THIS FORUM FOR FREE CONSULTATIONS..YOU ARE FREE, EVEN YOU TO BRING YOUR FAMILY, INCLUDING YOUR PIG.

SO IF ONE WERE TO ASK : "KENE WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO SHOW PATRIOTISM FOR YOUR COUNTRY?"
WHAT WILL YOU SAY?

I CAN IMAGINE YOU SHOUTING LOUD THE FOLLOWING WORDS:

"SINCE THE AGE OF 4 I HAVE BEEN SINGING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM AND TAKING PART IN MILITARY PARADES"

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE IN YOUR PRIVATE MOMENTS TO MAKE CAMEROON A BETTER COUNTRY? IS IT TO TRANSLATE THE ANTHEM INTO YOUR NATIVE TONGUE SO THE DOTARDS IN THE VILLAGE CAN ALSO SING SOME KIND OF PRAISE TO A LIFELESS ABSTRACTION CALLED THE "NATION ?"

NEIGHBOURING NIGERIA HAS YOUTH CORPS, WHO SERVE IN MILITARY AFTER GRADUATION..IS THAT WHAT PATRIOTISM MEANS???

LOVE FOR THE NATION ENTAILS MORE THAN JUST SINGING INTO THE AIR.FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF AND TELL ME IF THE ASIATIC COUNTRIES WHICH ARE TODAY MOVING AWAY FROM THE POVERTY MARGIN DEPENDED ON SOME PATHETIC " GOD SAVE THE QUEEN PARODY" TO MOVE THEIR ECONOMY TO WHERE IT IS TODAY.

SINGING BRINGS JOY AND IT IS NOT FORBIDDEN, IS IT? THE BIBLE DOES NOT REFER TO ANTHEM IN ITS LEXICON, BECAUSE ANTHEMS NEVER EXISTED AMONGST GOD'S PEOPLE. SO WHY SHOULD YOU EXPECT THE BIBLE TO HAVE A VERSE SAYING " THOU SHALL NOT SING THE ANTHEM OF THY NATION"

THERE ARE THINGS THE BIBLE FORBIDS THOUGH, AND EVEN YOU LACK THE WILL TO KEEP THEM:

"THOU SHALL NOT FORNICATE" AND YET YOU FORNICATE EVEN NOW ( NO INJURY INTENDED AS YOU IS USED IN GENERIC SENSE).

DONT YOU THINK IT IS BETTER TO OBEY WHAT IS FORBIDDEN BEFORE MOVING TO OTHER FORBIDDEN STUFF THAT CAN ONLY BE PERCEIVED THROUGH INFERENCE?

I DONT SAY YOU SHOULDNT SING YOUR ANTHEM..I AM SAYING PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CHOSE WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO SING..AND NOBODY SHOULD BE PUNISHED FOR NOT SINGING IT BECAÜSE THERE DOESNT EXIST SUCH A PROVISION IN OUR LAWS.

TRAGEDY COMES ONLY WHEN ZEALOTS FEEL THEIR PATRIOTISM IS THREATENED BY OTHER OVER ZEALOUS PATRIOTS...AND REMEMBER ACHEBE SAID, " NEVER KILL A MAN WHO SAYS NOTHING".

FINALLY, YOU WOULD MAKE A VERY BAD ADMINISTRATOR IF YOU DONT WATCH YOUR WORDS WELL.

MAKING FLEETING STATEMENTS LIKE :

"such student should be selected out of government institutions" HAS LITTLE REGARD FOR PARENTS WHO PAY THEIR TAXES TO CAESAR AGAINST THE PROVISION OF EDUCATION AND HEALTH FACILITIES FOR THE CITIZENS.


WHAT IF PARENTS SHOULD SAY :

" PAY NOT YE ANY DIME TO CAESAR BECAUSE HE CHASED OUR CHILDREN FROM THE INSTITUTIONS BUILT BY OUR TAXES?"

STOP TEACHING SOCIAL APATHEID IN POST PIETA BOTA AFRICA...

Roki of Shanghai

Mr Poubom,Danny Boy,Kenny,Fon and rest this is an addition of what Katakata has just been expaining.Hope you understand basic bible truths.Try to get your bibles from your selves as from now and refer to them.

Showing respect for life and Blood

1. Blood is sacred in God's eyes. God says that the soul, or life, is in the blood. So it is wrong to eat blood. It is also wrong to eat the meat of an animal that has not been properly bled. If an animal is strangled or dies in a trap, it should not be eaten. If it is speared or shot, it must be bled quickly if it is to be eaten.—Genesis 9:3, 4; Leviticus 17:13, 14; Acts 15:28, 29.

2. Is it wrong to accept a blood transfusion? Remember, Jehovah requires that we abstain from blood. This means that we must not take into our bodies in any way at all other people's blood or even our own blood that has been stored. (Acts 21:25) So true Christians will not accept a blood transfusion. They will accept other kinds of medical treatment, such as transfusion of nonblood products. They want to live, but they will not try to save their life by breaking God's laws.—Matthew 16:25.
Read the folling articles below which will help you be informed about Bloodness transfusion and try to be balance as you read and judge at the end if Blood transfusion is actually a right practice

Bloodless Medicine,The Growing Demand

AT AGE 61, José, a Belgian from the small town of Oupeye, was told that he would need a liver transplant. "It was the shock of my life," he says. Just four decades ago, liver transplants were unthinkable. Even in the 1970's, the survival rate was only about 30 percent. Today, however, liver transplants are routinely performed, with a much higher success rate.

But there is still a major drawback. Since liver transplants often involve excessive bleeding, doctors usually administer blood transfusions during the operation. Because of his religious convictions, José did not want blood. But he did want the liver transplant. Impossible? Some might think so. But the chief surgeon felt that he and his colleagues had a good chance of operating successfully without blood. And that is precisely what they did! Just 25 days after his operation, José was back home with his wife and daughter.*

Thanks to the skills of those whom Time magazine calls "heroes of medicine," bloodless medicine and surgery is now more common than ever. But why is there such a demand for it? To answer that question, let us examine the troubled history of blood transfusions.

BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS
A Long History Of Controversy
"If red blood cells were a new drug today,
it would be very difficult to get it licensed."
—Dr. Jeffrey McCullough.

IN THE winter of 1667, a violent madman named Antoine Mauroy was brought to Jean-Baptiste Denis, eminent physician to King Louis XIV of France. Denis had the ideal "cure" for Mauroy's mania—a transfusion of calf's blood, which he thought would have a calming effect on his patient. But things did not go well for Mauroy. Granted, after a second transfusion, his condition improved. But soon madness again seized the Frenchman, and before long he was dead.

Even though it was later determined that Mauroy actually died from arsenic poisoning, Denis' experiments with animal blood provoked a heated controversy in France. Finally, in 1670 the procedure was banned. In time, the English Parliament and even the pope followed suit. Blood transfusions fell into obscurity for the next 150 years.

Early Hazards
In the 19th century, blood transfusions made a comeback. Leading the revival was an English obstetrician named James Blundell. With his improved techniques and advanced instruments—and his insistence that only human blood should be used—Blundell brought blood transfusions back into the limelight.

But in 1873, F. Gesellius, a Polish doctor, slowed the transfusion revival with a frightening discovery: More than half the transfusions performed had ended in death. Upon learning this, eminent physicians began denouncing the procedure. The popularity of transfusions once again waned.

Then, in 1878, French physician Georges Hayem perfected a saline solution, which he claimed could serve as a substitute for blood. Unlike blood, the saline solution had no side effects, did not clot, and was easy to transport. Understandably, Hayem's saline solution came to be widely used. Strangely, however, opinion soon favored blood again. Why?

In 1900, Austrian pathologist Karl Landsteiner discovered the existence of blood types, and he found that one type of blood is not always compatible with another. No wonder so many transfusions in the past had ended in tragedy! Now that could be changed, simply by making sure that the blood type of the donor was compatible with that of the recipient. With this knowledge, physicians renewed their confidence in transfusions—just in time for World War I.Of course, blood transfusions carried a number of health risks, as soon became clear.


BLOOD-BORNE DISEASE

After World War II, great strides in medicine made possible some surgeries that were previously unimaginable. Consequently, a global multibillion-dollar-a-year industry sprang up to supply the blood for transfusions, which physicians began to consider standard operating procedure.

Soon, however, concern over transfusion-related disease came to the fore. During the Korean War, for example, nearly 22 percent of those who received plasma transfusions developed hepatitis—almost triple the rate during World War II. By the 1970's, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control estimated the number of deaths from transfusion-related hepatitis at 3,500 a year. Others put the figure ten times higher.

Thanks to better screening and more careful selection of donors, the number of cases of hepatitis-B contamination declined. But then a new and sometimes fatal form of the virus—hepatitis C—took a heavy toll. It is estimated that four million Americans contracted the virus, several hundred thousand of them through blood transfusions. Granted, rigorous testing eventually reduced the prevalence of hepatitis C. Still, some fear that new dangers will appear and will only be understood when it is too late.

Another Scandal: HIV-Contaminated Blood
In the 1980's, it was found that blood can be contaminated with HIV, the virus that leads to AIDS. At first, blood bankers were loathe to consider that their supply might be tainted. Many of them initially greeted the HIV threat with skepticism. According to Dr. Bruce Evatt, "it was as though someone had wandered in from the desert and said, 'I've seen an extraterrestrial.' They listened, but they just didn't believe it."

Nevertheless, country after country has seen scandals break out exposing HIV-contaminated blood. It is estimated that in France, between 6,000 and 8,000 people were infected with HIV through transfusions that were administered between 1982 and 1985. Blood transfusions are held responsible for 10 percent of HIV infections throughout Africa and for 40 percent of the AIDS cases in Pakistan. Today, because of improved screening, HIV transmission through blood transfusions is rare in developed nations. However, such transmission continues to be a problem in developing nations that lack screening processes.
Understandably, in recent years there has been an increased interest in bloodless medicine and surgery.

Not surprisingly, many doctors are becoming wary of administering blood. "Blood transfusions are basically no good, and we are very aggressive in avoiding them for everybody," says Dr. Alex Zapolanski, of San Francisco, California.

The general public too is becoming aware of the dangers of transfusions. Indeed, a 1996 poll revealed that 89 percent of Canadians would prefer an alternative to donated blood. "Not all patients will refuse homologous transfusions as do Jehovah's Witnesses," states the Journal of Vascular Surgery. "Nonetheless, the risks of disease transmission and immunomodulation offer clear evidence that we must find alternatives for all of our patients."

NOTE WHAT SOME DOCTORS HAVE SAID

Dr. Joachim Boldt
'Bloodless surgery is not only for Jehovah's Witnesses but for all patients. I think that every doctor should be engaged in it.'—Dr. Joachim Boldt, professor of anesthesiology, Ludwigshafen, Germany.

"While blood transfusions are safer today than in the past, they still pose risks, including immune reactions and contracting hepatitis or sexually transmitted diseases."—Dr. Terrence J. Sacchi, clinical assistant professor of medicine.


Dr. Terrence J. Sacchi
"Most physicians have knee-jerk reactions with transfusions and just give them out liberally and indiscriminately. I don't."—Dr. Alex Zapolanski, director of cardiac surgery at the San Francisco Heart Institute.

"I don't see any conventional abdominal operation that in a normal patient routinely requires blood transfusion."—Dr. Johannes Scheele, professor of surgery, Jena, Germany.
So dont be critical to judge believes you donot fully understand.Try to make references and always look to your bibles as the guide to life.Am i Clear Mr Poubom?

vito

Thanks Roki;quite enlightening.whetther you're a JW or not that's how to present an idea to the world;not the drunkard who raises more quetions and doubts than he answers them.
At any rate the point is ,there's no law in cameroun obliging secondary school students,or anyone for that matter to sing the national anthem;so no child is to be dismissed from school for not singing it.Thanks and God bless

katakata

"THE PURPOSE OF DISPUTE IS TO PROVE THE TRUTH THROUGH LOGIC"

THE QUESTIONS AND "DOUBTS?" RAISED BY A "DRUNKARD", MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR ROKI OF SHANGHAI TO BRING MORE LIGHT TO BEAR ON THIS SUBJECT.

KATAKATA CARRIED ON THIS KATAKATA FOR TOO LONG..AND ROKI LOOKED ON IN SHOCKED DISBELIEF THAT NOTIONS SO EASILY DESCRIBED REMAINED ELUSIVE.

I THANK YOU ROKI..BECAUSE LIKE A REAL TEACHER, (YES YOU ARE A REAL TEACHER) YOU MADE TRACED THES POINTS AND MADE THEM SO EASY FOR ALL HERE TO UNDERSTAND.

NOW WE FIND OURSELVES IN A WIN-WIN SITUATION: AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE SHOULD STRIVE TO PROMOTE..THERE IS NO LOSER..WE HAVE BUT WINNERS .

VITO, IT WARMS MY HEART TO HEAR YOU SAY :

"there's no law in cameroun obliging secondary school students,or anyone for that matter to sing the national anthem;so no child is to be dismissed from school for not singing it."

SO WE RECONCILED THESE POINTS IN A PEACEFUL WAY.

MAY WE ALWAYS DEBATE TO LEARN ...AND IF YOU BRING IN A GOOD POINT I WILL ALWAYS WRITE BACK AND CONGRATULATE YOU.

THE QUESTION NOW IS THIS: WHAT HAPPENS TO THE YOUNG GIRL WHO WAS DISMISSED? SHOULDNT AN INQUIRY BE CARRIED OUT TO ASCERTAIN THE VERACITY OF THE PRINCIPAL'S ALLEGATIONS?


THE FLOOR IS OPEN...

HAVE A SOUND SLEEP

vito

Come on Doc,what was i saying before?What was my stance on the issue?Maybe you should go over my postings again.Thanks

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