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« SCNC Protests At Tony Blair's Doorsteps | Main | The Post Front Page-Friday, May 25, 2007 »

Thursday, 24 May 2007

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Ma Mary

Southern Cameroonians believe in a United States of Africa, but as a separate state member than la Republique francais du Cameroun.

rexon

Great Idea that would dilute La Republique Francaise Du Cameroun too.

Ted

A practical African unity will be a major step out of misery for Africans, although this misery is mostly prevalent in the sub sahara region of Africa. With the pool of human and non human resources that Africa has, the continent can within a twinkle of an eye transforms itself into a developed world if there is a central policy and decision making body for the entire continent. Sub sahara Africa is that part of Africa that suffers much and it's that part of Africa that flashes a negative but true image of the continent. External aid that comes in cannot be effectively pooled and diffused because of the fragmentation of the continent. Africa has almost all of the human and non human resources found in a developed world that can transform a nation into a living world, but the unfortunate side is that almost all of these resources are being taken out the continent. While a large blame goes to African leaders with twisted policies, most sub sahara Africans are themselves not patriotic. Most sub sahara African entrepreneurs are investing in other continents. They create jobs out of their continents for citizens of other continents while their own citizens are perishing at home. Though i've only been to a few countries around the world, i would like to cite China as an example where patriotism is alive and is of paramount importance in the heart of every Chinese, regardless of what form of government they have. I choose China because of her large population, her unprecedented pace of development and economic growth, the classic discipline which this huge population observes and the affordability of life in this overpopulated nation in the world; yet most Chinese entrepreneurs are not as wealthy as sub sahara African entrepreneurs.This is so ironical because more than 3/4 of Chinese entrepreneurs invest in their country while more than 3/4 of subsahara African entrepreneurs are busy inflating the economies of other nations. The Chinese global influence is not a hiiden secret. With their competence and control of outer space, they've just launched a communication satellite for Nigeria, first of its kind on the African continent and a thing which neither Europe nor America could do within the time frame. But this nation had all but one of the ills that Africa has today, however, collectivism, cooperation discipline and patriotism are some of the characteristics of Chinese values and these have rewarded them with a world record economic prosperity.

Kumbaboy

A "United States of Africa" is a good idea, - a mechanism to free people who have unwittingly become colonized internally and are subject to exploitation by warlords and the ineptitude of uncompetitive governance.

I bet the USA will support the idea but Europe, oh yes Old Europe will torpedo the idea through its agents in Francophone Africa - these are Omar Bongo of Gabon, the War Lord Denis Sassou-Nguesso of Congo and the calculated neutrality of Paul Biya of Cameroun.

eyallow

Those of you in here that deem it necessary that cameroon should be fragmented sound to me as hypocrates to accept African unity when you can not keep your own house in unity!

Kumbaboy

Eyallow,

If you accept the premise that bad governance and underdevelopment are the result of diminished intellectual capacity then you will see the benefit of uniting Africans and opening up the leadership process for competition.

The challenge to unification may also be that North Africans who see themselves more as Arabs than Africans and are far less tolerant of democratic change will be hard to change. Take the case of Libya, Morocco and Egypt - these are modern feudal states where the leaders are demi-gods and rule with a hard fist. Egypt only last week permitted the formation of an official opposition party and is in line to install a dynasty - copying what transpired in Syria.

Ma Mary

Europe will stay united as long as the parameters are respected. There are signs that France wants to use the EU and give little back. If that happens, the EU shall be principle applies in the United States. If a big state like New York annexes a small state like Rhode Island, and it has the military means to do that, it will be the end of the union if it goes unchallenged. The union between la Republique francais du Cameroun and the Southern Cameroons is dead, and I do not hear any la republique person of consequence clamoring to fix it. They want us to accept the annexation as immutable fact. The union with la republique is not for Southern Cameroons to fix but for la republique, whose big disgusting lips (with frances) are locked around the teat of Southern Cameroons sucking away at its resources. We came into this wanting union. They wanted annexation. Who is the hypocrite, eyallow? Talk to the frogs, not to us if you are to be Hippocrates and not a hypocrite, or are you too ahh yellow to reach for what is yours?

Ma Mary

erratum:
I meant to say:

There are signs that France wants to use the EU and give little back. If that happens to a significant extent, the EU would break up. The same principle applies to the United States.

Ma Mary

People keep bringing up the straw man of the so called NW/SW divide. I say so called because NW and SW are a creation of la Republique and we are considering more productive structures than that. All ethnic schisms can be anticipated and discussed to arrive at a creative solution. The indolent la republique that responds lackadaisically even to disasters cannot be counted upon to be proactive in ethnic matters and to come up with policies.

Manipulators rouse up the NW/SW strawman, so that simpletons will worry about the graffi man, while la republique steals everything including the ground on which they stand.

There are only a few categories of people who benefit from this ruse:

• La republique francais du Cameroun and its beneficiaries and controllers.

• Southern Cameroonian uncureable tribalists

• Southern Cameroonians employed and/or bribed by la republique to betray their kith and kin.

• Ignorant Southern Cameroonians

Which of these or combination of these are you?

mk the southerner

Eyallow

do you see the Cameroons as one country? Do you know what it takes for unity to be called unity? Do you know what it meant by forming a federation of two states of equal status which is now called one an indivisible? Can you in your next write up prove to me the oneness of the Cameroons?. For your information you can not get back the German Kamerun together. So do not think about that as a point . Gentle man i limit you and Ricardo to just one point that the Cameroons is one.

The formation of a United Africa is a very good dream. I think with this idea Nkwameh Nkrumah will smile in his grave.But two thing have to be done before this dream can come true.

Let the African union put the Cairo declaration of 1964 in to practice. Which defined the boundaries of all African states. And that boundaries attend at independence should not be changed or is liable for any modifications. With this they would have solve the grass rood problems of African states under the will be United States Of Africa.

Secondly, until all French Provence's in Africa came to realize that without France they can do better, One Africa will still be sick just like the sick man in Europe.

FRANCE I DO BERG YOU LIVE AFRICA ALONE.
MK.

Watesih

The United States of Africa is necessary,but not feasible.First if the African Union cannot work the magic of igniting economic growth,and peaceful transitions in various African countries,then we should know that Africans generally lack what can be termed the spirit of a nation.Africa has 53 countries,and Europe has assembled 27 for the moment.Europe surely knows that with divergent views,and distinct linguistic backgrounds,the idea of a state is farfetched.The foundation of every state is laid on sound economic policies,and political will.These are just ideals that are too strange to Africans.We must not also forget that the whole idea of the African union was the brainchild of Ghadaffi.Through this he could the conceal the disgrace that came with his trying to ruffle the feathers of the most powerful country in the world. Aside from the initial excitement generated from the onset,the Union has not proved that Africans can count on it for both political, and economic independence.The simple fact of accepting an African Union centre from the Chinese is surrendering the whole African continent to another third world country. What has been the African Union been doing since its inception that it has to take the compassion of the chinese to build a centre for it? The Chinese always say they don`t have any political strings tied to aid given to Africans,but when they laid the foundation of this so called African Union centre ,they highlighted their eternal cry of one China policy.Talking about the Chinese,lets stop comparing their set up with what we have in Africa.The Chinese are very nationalistic,and this comes from the spirit of family,which is one of the outstanding points of Confuscius philosophy.
This is in stark contrast with Africans,who
adopt all the ills of their former,and current colonial masters.Also the Chinese are mono-ethnic,and are strong believers in Asian values like the respect of authority.
Respect of authority cannot be one-dimensional,but this is exactly how Africans see it.The leaders up there think it must only come from the governed.Again the Chinese are monolingual,that is having one common National language that stands above their various ethnic varieties.But the language issue here can easily be solved,just as Europe is doing.
My second thrust has to do with sphere of interest.Africa is the melting pot of the world`s political witchhunting.This is due to its status as the supplier of cheap raw materials,and a market for finished goods. This has seen Africa partitioned among the major world players,and according to who plays the fox the best.Africa as it stands can only be look at with unfriendly eyes by the world powers if it starts dreaming to become too powerful.They have already manifested this by staging a coup d'etat with the Doha round of trade talks.African markets must always be made to constantly want more from the West,but they don`t want to share important technology with us.
Political and religious conflicts in Africa,are being fanned by these big powers,
yet the African Union has been unable to get over this.How can you bring about a United state of Africa when some countries like Sudan ,Eritrea,Nigeria,Algeria are often bedeviled by religiously motivated conflicts.Some of these countries that now prove to be new friends of Africa pay little attention to the human rights situations in these African countries,but they stick theirs noses deep into African oil.Looking at the political side of it,we must take into consideration,the francophonie block,
which is nothing else but a group of "meilleurs eleves" who compete for ostentation infront of their Godfather France.The intrigues that have animated this entity,are not a good sign that unity is for tomorrow.From secret pacts signed to outright intervention in the internal affairs of African countries,France will continue breathing down our back ,to see to it that we remain bugged down.The example of cote d'Ivoire is glaring,where Jacques Chirac held on by pushing the Security council to pass resolutions that will push the government in place to hasten its exit.
Finally, you don`t gather all your kith,and kin and ask a stranger to build a hut for you,thereby selling your manhood to him,just as the African Union did today by accepting a centre where African nationhood can be decided from the Chinese.This shows that our salvation will only come from outside.But this has proven to be a long and difficult road to take.It is a good thing to show the inability of the US,and Europe to help Nigeria launch a satellite ,which their new best friend has done for them.But does this bring about any independenct spirit?
Your answer is as good as mine!

Ted

In our present world, it is crystal clear (with a few exceptions like South Africa and some arab nations in North Africa)that Africa cannot survive without outside assistance. Some of the reasons are as follow, Africa lacks the initiatives to development, Africa doesn't have that capacity to initiate and sustain economic growth and as a result there is bound to be perpetual misery. This outside assistance has largely been coming from the west and not without a price that has been hurting rather than healing and now Africa's only last chance for survival is to emulate the example of China. This is a fact that no matter how much time one spends spinning around it, would always come to acept it.

Fritzane Kiki HK

Ted,
Good analysis there.China's example is an exemplary one for African countries to copy.Sometimes we think Communism will be the only way out, for African countries, to boost their economies first, before battling it out in election fevers year-in-year-out;a major cause for civil strifes and war,famine,and excrutiating poverty, plaguing the entire continent.

A United State of Africa is still a nightmarish venture.A United State of which Africa?The African Union is still languishing in it numerous unresolved civil wars and misunderstanding.Africa's problem at home is more than the African Union to look for possible solution.Not the Africa we know.This idea will be unworkable,since there is no true democracy rooted in the rule of law in Africa,as compared to the Western Democracies and Civilisations.The political legacies bestowed on us by colonialism, has been betrayed and misused by African political oligarchies and dictators.Majority of the countries still face social mishaps such as,food shortages, diseases(aids pandemic)and political insecurities and uncertainties,and therefore, creating these States, will mean a total change of most foreign policies and foreign aids in the respective countries.

Moreso,this will fuel a furious debate as to how to compromise with the systems of Education,Governments,Law enforcement and the Military.The newly impoverished countries, like South Africa and North Africa, will see it as a means to curtail their already priviledged position of economic boom and domestic tranquility enjoyed at home.

However,advocates should consider those governments with disastrous mismanagement of power and Human right abuse,the factors that will break the bounds transcending cutltural specifics and multi-culturalism in the continent.Individual pollsters still express dissenting views as to see any possible United State of Africa gaining momentum as their US or EU counterparts.A once-in-a-life-time decision for Africa as a whole to be committed to rethink different stratedies for the well-being.A long way to go.Fuggedaboutit!!

Fritzane Kiki
Hong Kong

Watesih

Ted,
It is good you use the word emulate China,not replacing one colonial master with another.How can Africans emulate China ,when the same China turns a blind eye to human right situations in countries like Sudan,Zimbabwe,Zambia,and seems to be out to keep maintaining the deadwood that has brought about our misery in power.Their song of not wanting to tie political strings to economic aid is going to present them worst off than the Europeans who came before them.
When African tribes are being wiped out ,as it is the case in Sudan,yet you keep sending in military engineers to go and build oil facilities.Is that a good example to emulate? All those powers are competing for resources,and it is up to the Africans to go after the best bider.But have they been doing that? Of course not! Else they will have money to build their own conference centre where they can discuss their issues, and don't allow China to do it for them,and start singing the eternal song of one china policy.China is just preparing grounds for the subsequent transfer of some of its excess population to Africa.In Johannesburg, they now have their own counter Police force to protect their own citizens.Nobody refuses that China is a good economic model to emulate, but they are also a bad political model to emulate.Their ideology is based on people being blind to the excesses of their leaders.This might have succeeded with them,but it cannot go with the Africans.We cannot forget about human rights situations ,because we want to provide resource hungry country with our natural resources.

john2

WATETSIH
I like the two comments your have wriiten espercially the first comments.How can we be talking of the united state of African when we still have so many countries in African role by useless dictators,for example how do will expect contries like cameroon,Gabon,Burkina Fasso etc which are been role by presidents who donot like the people they are roling and who are ready to leave power unless the is blood sheding to make up the sme country with countries like South Africa,Botswana,Namibia,Kenya,and even Nigeria?We have to follow the example of the European union,the EU started by 3 countries,the set their conditions of membership,and those countries that wanted to join were forced to accept their condition.I think contries which have reach a certain state of democray and are been role by responsible leader like S.African,Botwana, Namibia,Kenya,Ivory coast,can start a small union for other countries to follow.We need to be carefull when dealing with the chinese,we should not be moving from one colonial masters to another.We should try to be independent,why can we not copy from S.Africa?We are not children.We welcome chinese help but we can not just coppy from them blindly,we donot have the same situation with them.

eyallow

Ma Mary wrote "Who is the hypocrite, eyallow? Talk to the frogs, not to us if you are to be Hippocrates and not a hypocrite, or are you too ahh yellow to reach for what is your´.

Thanks for the correction ma mary. I am not here to teach english or french nor to learn any of them!

Without any intention to spill bile, the fact is simple Ma mary, you cannot be preaching division in Cameroon and at the same talking about African unity. These two ideas at negative poles!

As a pressure good, it is good to have SCNC but that they will one day succeed in diving Cameroon into two, that is like the needle in a hay sack tale or a child yearning for the moon. Goodluck with your endeavours!

MK the southerner,

The answer to your question is simple. I am a Cameroonian from the North west province, I hold a Cameroon passport. Everywhere I go I am identified as Cameroonian. Everything about me is cameroonian from documents i own to whatever. At the UN cameroon is regarded as one entity. Did I by some unknowing means get your question wrong?

Apart from this crap you are dishing out here about a divide in Cameroon, the rest of the world is oblivious to your struggle.

On this forum i ironically saw that on the placards the SCNC protesters at the Hague were carrying, it was boldly inscribed. #We want Democracy in Cameroon". That is sufficient prove mister!

eyallow

Ma Mary wrote "Who is the hypocrite, eyallow? Talk to the frogs, not to us if you are to be Hippocrates and not a hypocrite, or are you too ahh yellow to reach for what is yours´.

Thanks for the correction ma mary. I am not here to teach english or french nor to learn any of them!

Without any intention to spill bile, the fact is simple Ma mary, you cannot be preaching division in Cameroon and at the same talking about African unity. These two ideas are at opposite poles!

As a pressure group, it is good to have SCNC. That they will one day succeed in dividing Cameroon into two, that is like the needle in a hay sack tale or a child yearning for the moon. Goodluck with your endeavours!

MK the southerner,

The answer to your question is simple. I am a Cameroonian from the North west province, I hold a Cameroon passport. Everywhere I go I am identified as Cameroonian. Everything about me is cameroonian from documents i own to whatever. I sure you carry similar documents and identification portfolio! At the UN cameroon is regarded as one entity. Did I by some unknowing means get your question wrong?

Apart from this crap you are dishing out here about a divide in Cameroon, the rest of the world is oblivious to your struggle.

On this forum i ironically saw that on the placards the SCNC protesters at the Hague were carrying, it was boldly inscribed. #We want Democracy in Cameroon". That is sufficient prove mister!


Fon

john2,
You made a crucial point there. The notion of the United States of Africa can only work if it is iniated by a few African countries who already enjoy a certain level of democracy and economic growth. The economic advantage of joining the union will then force the other countries to fulfil certain conditions and join.

To begin by calling all to unite at the negociating table will never work . It will instead scare the economic powers from joining as they fear the jeopardy of their economies by corrupt nations like Cameroon

Fritzane Kiki HK

Eyallow,
Please help to explain this statement you mentioned.You say Ma Mary;
".... cannot be preaching division in Cameroon and at the same talking about African unity. These two ideas are at opposite poles!"

I am in doubt why the two opinions cannot go together.There is one safeguard known generally to the wise Africans, which is an advantage and security to all, but especially to democracies as against despots. What is it? Distrust.The major obstacle to the African Union and that of the troubling marraige between the La Republique and the Southern Cameroons,who claims they are the organized minority therefore, a political majority.They might be aspiring to have a seperate autonomous state within the debated African Union.

Fritzane Kiki
Hong Kong

Ted

It's very easy to write sweeping statements on issues that require sober reflections and blind one's self into an illusionary existence. It's very easy for these commentators to blindly condemn China's human right records but perhaps very difficult for them to understand that China's human right records are by far better than human rights situations on the African continent and China is not the country in the world with the worst human right records and also that human rights abuses are common all over the globe. These same commentators are blind to the fact that the Chinese economic model is at present the most appealing especially to developing econimies and the most challenging to developed economies. Developed economies have quickly realized this unusual phenomenon and are seeking to work hand in hand with the China in order to achieve maximum benefit for their economies. Developed economies are not so much interested in these

Ted

It's very easy to write sweeping statements on issues that require sober reflections and blind one's self into an illusionary existence. It's very easy for these commentators to blindly condemn China's human right records but perhaps very difficult for them to understand that China's human right records are by far better than human rights situations on the African continent and China is not the country in the world with the worst human right records and also that human rights abuses are common all over the globe. These same commentators are blind to the fact that the Chinese economic model is at present the most appealing especially to developing econimies and the most challenging to developed economies. Developed economies have quickly realized this unusual phenomenon and are seeking to work hand in hand with China in order to achieve maximum benefit for their economies. Developed economies are not so much interested in these deficient African economies. There is already a lot of apathy and fatigue within the developed nations concerning this ever backward Africa and since Africans are not creative enough and are unable to come out with a model that can pull them out of poverty and misery, their only last hope is to copy the Chinese model which is perhaps easier for them to emulate than the highly sophisticated system of the west which can't be applicable on the African continent at this material moment. You will tell me China and Africa are not the same, but if you could come out with your own original ideas, who will ask you to copy from China? Africa prides herself with resources but fail to understand the fact that those resources are all over the world, they fail to understand that those countries that come to seek resources from Africa do not lack those resources but they have them in reserves. The question is why do they have to reserve theirs and import from Africa? Because Africa doesn't know how to transform those resources. They import resources from Africa to sustain their economies and to hedge their economies and create a system that is catastropic to the unhedged African economies and Africans are unable to realize this. Just to give a laconic example, if one could imagine the huge number of Chinese graduates in specialized courses in China per year one would be getting closer to understanding this phenomenon. Of course, unlike the west that forced an unworkable system on Africa, China is in no way forcing Africa to take what it doesn't want to.

Watesih

Ted,
You may want to use the word blind one hundred times on those who peer deep into China's role in Africa.You may want to take yourself for a China hand,and finally your gullibility may just be one of the problems that have made us to be slaves to the other colonialists for a longtime.But you missed out the debate completely.We are not comparing the human right situation in China to those of the African countries.We are saying in simple terms that if China is a responsible stakeholder as it claims to be it must see to it that Political institutions in African countries are answerable,and compassionate to their people
,else they will not be any different from the Americans ,and Europeans.I heard you said Africa doesn`t know how to transform resources!If you were in a country like Sudan where whole villages are razed,if you were in a country like Zimbabwe how would you transform resources.It is easy for you to be estatic about China ,because everybody is doing so,but we are talking with examples.When President Hu Jingtao visited Africa,he called off his visit in parts of Zambia because of strike action that was planned there.This was because of the indiscriminate exploitation of locals by the chinese companies there.It is easy to stand on mountain tops and say Africans are not creative enough ,and are unable to come out with a model that can pull them out of poverty,and misery.What happened to Africans that they are so uncreative? Who stands on their way in their bid to come out of poverty? How can Africa come out of poverty ,when the same tactics that bugged her down are still being used by resource-hungry best friends today like China to turn the hand of the clock back? For some of us who are too gullible,the Chinese have often based their cooperation abroad by paying attention in the area of infrastructure construction,and some cheap loans.This cannot help African countries in anyway.African countries need to benefit from the transformation of their raw materials right at home.The Chinese themselves have got no original technological breakthroughs.They copy indiscriminately from the West,and this has played favourably for them because of cheap labour.The size of the population is an asset.Everybody is aware of the chinese tainted goods that are causing health hazards around the world these days.
This debate is not about denying China its due,but it is about knowing how to accept a new colonial master.If anybody were asking for our original idea,we would say it is good to invite Chinese enterprises ,and make them involve the locals in the transformation of resources.It is good to start making it abundantly clear to the Chinese from the beginning that they should not involve themselves in some type of hostage taking,by building conference centres for the Africa Union,and start marshalling the concept of one China poilicy.It would be worthwhile making it clear to the Chinese that a conference centre is not worth the lives of the Africans that are being wiped out in Sudan,while China keeps playing a good uncle there.
To opine that China is not forcing an unworkable system on Africa is being myopic.
China is forcing the unworkable system where
dictators like Mugabe,Bechir,Theodora Mbagsogo,Bongo,Eyadema junior ,can burn their people,stay in power for a thousand years,but leave their oil pipes open to the Chinese.This is not different from what the other colonialists have been doing.If it is,
then tell me how!

Emmanuel

Dear All
I think most of us are seeing Africa the way some blind men saw the elephant. Remember one approached the side of the elephant and said he thinks the elephant is like a wall. The other felt the leg and said it was a like a tree and so on.
When we talk of a European Union I hope we remember that every member of this union has its souvereign home government, and sticks to its cultural heritage. What makes it a Union is the simple fact that the for a state to be accepted as a member of this union and have the economic and social benefits that come from it, this would be member must among other generally agreed principles of the union member states accept to apply fully within its borders all universally declared rights of man. I am sure all of us know what these are. Applying these obviously mean mean the country is democratic. But the EU is not a country. I don't see it being a country in the next century. It is easier said than done. But the issue here is must Africa assume US type Union to be better off? I don't think so. I know the word unity in Africa is an intoxicant. Politicians use this word when they want to make propaganda about its benefits. Unity must not be geographical. In fact in Cameroon if those in power had encouraged our bi-culturalism, Cameroon would have been a jewel in Africa. Honestly speaking, I feel Cameroon can do well as a single country - that is the way it is now. It could have done better as a bi-cultural entity also. unfortunately our leaders think trying to obliterate history and yet not even trying to respect its own laws thus allowing the majority to dominate the minority it has created more dessidents and advocates of division. African unity must never be like Cameroon unity. African unity can only work if the different member states maintain their souvereignties yet compelled by something to respect the union rules and regulations. European Union member states are compelled to respect these rules and regulations governing the union because there are economic benefits, economic and social they would otherwise loose if they violate. What will compel African states to respect the rules of the game? In every country citizens respect laws because of the punishments that await defaulters. In Cameroon in particular laws are not respected and people with resources can get away with anything. How will any union function when countries cannot even apply laws within its own national borders? In the European Union travel within the union by citizens of member states is smooth and free of harassment of any sort. In Cameroon citizens of Cameroon cannot do 20 km without crossing multiple police and gendarme checkpoints legal and illegal working side by side asking for one single document - money. In Cameroon if you are identified as a foreigner at any of these check points you will learn the hard way what it means visiting Cameroon. With such a weak and chaotic legal environment, if for some reason an official orders these checkpoints stopped they simply re-emerge after that official gets tired of trying to put things right. The idea of th African Union is great but I think the American model is not to be an example. I don't think it would be a good idea to get up one morning and see one million Nigerians in my backyard looking for work in Cameroon babbling in either ibo or yoruba as loud as they just feel like. There must be some controls somewhere.
Fon

Ted

Mr. Watesih,
I've always read and admired your comments here on Cameroon politics but i think there is a distinction between Cameroon politics and Africa continental politics which i don't really want to say you haven't really mastered. No country is colonizing Africa. China is not forcing a conference center on the African Union, the conference center issue is an agreed upon project by both parties. China is seeking resources around the world and carrying out investments around the world, but you won't tell me China is colonizing the world. I could guess where your fears come from, "a burnt child dreads fire" they say, and so i know the urgly traces of colonialism are still very fresh in the minds of Africans and is making them paranoid. You've taked of the Chinese population being an asset and by your appreciation, i assume, an African large and united population will equally be an asset and if Africa is to have a population that size, it's but common reasoning that it should copy from a successful nation that has a population that size as well and that country is China. You've talked of China preaching the one China policy. The one China policy means that the People's Republic of China includes Taiwan that is attempting to be soveriegn. China wants every country that she has diplomatic relations with to recognize that fact and i think that is also a good example of what unity means. I can't actually figure out your grudges with China. You want China to step into Africa and sponsor civil wars under the pretext of deposing dictators who are supported by their citizen as the west have been doing, but then China won't do that.

Danny Boy

There will never be a United States of Africa in our life time!!! Whoever is advocating this is a detractor. Given Africas diversity, ethnicity, neo-politics, and other afflictions, that point of convergence for a United States of Africa, is as remote as having an african on the moon.
Where are you Prof. Mazuri? To those new to pan-africanisation, please read Prof. Mazuri's tome : The African Heritage. You will be inspired.

Watesih

Ted,
Thanks for mastering African politics to an appreciable level,but you smear yourself with filth by trying to prove that China will not depose African dictators for fear of igniting civil wars.Your China therefore should continue to maintain those who are there,and continue her quest for oil ,and cheap resources.I will make it clear to you that you have not mastered what this debate is about.That if we want a united state of Africa,some parts of Africa cannot be suffering from genocides carried out by inconsequential dictators ,and propped on by so called new friends like China.No country is colonising Africa as you would want it to look like,but your China is knee deep in colonising parts of Africa.Dictators are razing villages in Sudan,while China is busily building oil pipes.Building a conference centre for Africa means all its citizens will have to discuss important issues there,but how will this happen if civil strif continues in Sudan,Zimbabwe,Togo
and many other rogue states in Africa.
Building conference centres for individual countries is a good thing,because they can then negotiate their one China policy.Other African countries have servered relations with China in order todeal with Taiwan.By building a conference centre for the African Union ,and insisting that the one China policy must be observed shows China is attaching political strings to her dealings with Africa.If this is the case,then she should also attach political strings to the killings in Sudan,but there she has been dumb.Ted i think your argument doesn`t go beyond praising China.You should show what concrete progress they have brought already.
All their citizens that are being kidnapped from Nigeria, to Ethiopia are only found around oil wells.The US ,another resource
grabbing country published a Defence Report few days ago,clearly stating that China is propping up dictators around the world ,because of its mad quest for oil.I think in 2007 we have our eyes to see,and the last thing i will tell you is that China wants to colonise the world.This you will not accept,
maybe out of disbelief,but they are involved in trade disputes with practically all the major blocks of the world,and they keep
threatening court action in other to see their cheap goods accepted by everybody,to the detriment of the other countries of course.You need to learn about China first
,its role in Africa during the 60s,and 70s,
and go beyond the cheap rhetoric of showering panegyrics.

wordweaver

I sincerely hope that all Africans will realize that a United states of africa is the only solution to the plight facing to Africa today. The Western countries and Asia don't want to help us, they just want to exploit our resources for their own betterment.Don't be fooled by all the loans they are giving us or busineses they are opening in Africa. These are just accounting devices to make theirselves richer and make Africa poorer. What we need is a united nation that fully fight the westerners and asians. One country cannot fight the west. Cameroon alone cannot secure fair trade with france because what economic standing do we have? camerooon alone cannot prevent france from controlling the circulation of our own currency because what economic standing do we have? they have made us depedent on them and it's impossible to fight alone. This is what is going on in other african countries and to stop this we need to stand together. A united africa will mean that we can trade freely among ourselves and share our resources. We can look for other trading partners like Australia or New Zealand who are out for fair trade and not for exploitation. However, a united Africa does not mean one country under a single government. It will mean a federal state like America in which every country will still maintain it's sovereignty. A united states of Africa is the best thing that can ever happened to us. It will be a way to slap our oppressors in the face. Africans were never starving before they came and colonize us and we will no more starve when we finally kick them out of our lives. Please people, let us support these course.

Ted

Watesih,
Let me ask you a few questions. Are there civil wars on the African continent because China is doing business with Africa? Is it because China is doing business with Africa that there are dictators on the African continent? Wasn't the British that groomed Mugabe to power? Who is that African leader that China has groomed to power? Building a conference center is politely asking warriors to abandon battle fields and assemble themselves in a hall for civilized talks. China invited more than 40 African leaders for a unanimous conference and that was a good sign for openess and equality. They all talked business together, there were no secret talks and that is the bone of contention between the west and china. If America is accusing China for an increase in military spending, the question is who is at war and killing innocent humans and for what reasons? I know you want China to follow the wrong path the west took in dealing with Africa. That path created problems than solving and has dangerously retarded the continent. China is taking a pragmatic and realistic approach to solving Africa's problems. You've learnt from the west but you're not getting any closer to their shadow, so learn from China and be great as China.

Watesih

Ted,
First this discussion is not meant to use propagandist type of language to show the Chinese as saviours,or as devils.It is meant to discuss the plight of Africa vis a vis its other partners.We are not barring China to do business where civil wars already exist.We are saying that just as they built a conference centre to take away warlords from the battlefield ,they should therefore ask these warlords to stop the wars at least ,and enjoy their new centre.
Which is more important,stopping the razing of villages in Darfur or building Conference centres? The British groomed Mugabe,and the Chinese today help perrenise his dictatorial grip over his people.This is what we mean by rejecting one colonial master,and accepting another.The mass the 40 Heads of States attended in Beijing was certainly a very big event for you,but it was not different from the Francophonie spirit that has been condemned by everybody.The posture of one country trying to play good uncle to many poor ones will never go down well with right thinking people.China has started off very poorly in Africa.From turning a blind eye to the killings in Darfur ,to building conference centres,and dinning with dictators shows Africa is still in for the same old problems with this country.Africa needs industry,from steel to whatever.If the Chinese like Africa,let them transfer technology by setting up enterprises in Africa.Africa should not be seen as a receiver of cheap loans,a market for cheap goods,and a place to have cheap natural resources.Some say Americans do not care whether all the people in Iraq die,as long as they smell oil,jsut as some think the Chinese have the same impression about the people of Darfur.This leads us to the conclusion that a colonialist is a colonialist?

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