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« The United States Of Africa | Main | Where Have The Great Men/Women Of Africa Gone To? »

Monday, 09 July 2007

Comments

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nshom

you do not make your husband or boy friend love you more by loving a fellow woman sexually. Even animals know this.

Danny Boy

Was hoping to read a masterly critique on this subject with regards to the plight of lesbians in Cameroon. Having read through this article, I do not know what exactly Azore Opio wants us to believe or understand.
Been looking for examples of the split infinitive and Azore Opio duly obliges with,"to never speak". Brilliant!

DaDiceman

Azore Opio, you are the ignorant homophobic fool who needs to be "locked up in the mental wing of a hospital". Of all the pressing issues you could address regarding your country, is the sexual preferences of others your utmost priority? What bothers you so much about what two consenting adults decide to do with each other? Do you fancy having CCTV in every bedroom in Cameroon?

It might surprise a virtuous and superior human being like you to know that, the sexual preferences of others should make them no less entitled to the same respect you think you deserve as a human being. Sooner or later you and Cameroon will catch up with the 21st century....don't you worry!

Neba Fuh

Azore Opio,

Where is the 'digging' in this article?

Some days, you don't just have to write. We call those days 'uninspired days'.

Neba Fuh

M Nje

DaDiceman,
I will beg to disagree with you.

First, Azore wrote "Some people in Cameroon just think that lesbians should be locked up in the mental wing of a hospital."

That is not his personal view. You should apologize to Azore for calling him a "ignorant homophobic fool." It is wrong to go after a reporter who is just expressing the sentiments of a society. That is his job. You can disagree with that position, but you cannot use personal insults.

Secondly, you wrote "What bothers you so much about what two consenting adults decide to do with each other?". Well I will like to say you should be worry about the kind of society that your children or grand children leave in. Every society has customs, norms, traditions and values that are socially acceptable and are the identity for that society. These norms and values help to establish social cohesion. If you steal, murder, commit adultery, or drive under the influence of alcohol, you pay a price for that. You are said to have valuated accepted social behavior for that society. You will be making a mistake to think that what two consenting adults decide to do with each other do not after you. That will be true only if such behavior will not be expose to the public. When you portray such behavior in public, it has to be judged by the society and either be accepted or denied.

If someone feels a society consider their behavior as an antisocial behavior, they can move to where they will be accepted.

Thirdly, are you suggesting that homosexuality is inevitable and is the behavior for the 21st century? If you do then I wonder which part of the world you are talking about. What benefits does homosexually brings or has brought to that society. The human anatomy does not make any provision for homosexuality. So what is the basis that should make it acceptable.

Just because someone says he or she is a homosexual does not make the behavior acceptable. If that should be the case, then you will have disorder and confusion in society. What about INCEST? If you think homosexuality should be tolerated, then I will expect that you agree with INCEST. What about POLYGAMY. In most of those countries that tolerate homosexually, polygamy is prohibited. Why do they prohibit it and INCEST. Will you also add INCEST and POLYGAMY into the list of 21st century advancement as you did for homosexuality. If not, then one may argue that those countries are not in the 21st century because they do not accept INCEST and POLYGAMY.

I am not an advocate for INCEST or POLYGAMY. I just want to make the point that there is no social custom or tradition that should be consider best for the 21st century. One should either accept the groups customs and traditions that are in a particularly society they find themselves or leave that society. It is something wrong to complain that your imported custom or tradition has been denied or should become the norm of a society.

Emmanuel

Dear All
(ANYTIME WE ACCEPT A HOMOSEXUAL COUPLE WE ARE ASSISTING IN ELIMINATING AT LEAST ONE HUMAN LIFE ON EARTH)
There is no question that homosexuality is immoral. It does not matter what justifications people try to make. It is no use trying to ridicule somebody about living with the times. Murder, theft and other forms of criminal acts don't get justified because of time. Whether some proponents of homosexuality believe in God or not we all know that God sent us all to this world to go and multiply. If some people because of disease or just plain natural conditions cannot procreate that is another matter. but if for some reason some choose not tO procreate yet would try to benefit from the sweat of others, in the long run where will they get partners if everybody becomes homosexual? It is not easy to conceive and raise a healthy child to maturity. people shy away from responsibilities and yet will not hesitate to use somebody else's fruits of the labour. But apart from this argument homosexuality is wrong also because as humans who are higher forms in the animal kingdom we are supposed to know what is wrong and what is right. We should know that things don't become right because we are capable of doing them. Just because one might have some thrills with another of same sex does not make it right. Stealing,and murder have been branded as crimes by the human society because we are humans and have determined that such activities are wrong. We could as well just consider it correct human behaviour but being human we know what makes it wrong. Homosexuality is the evil in human form designed by the devil to hasten the end of the world. There s nothing good about homosexuality. Heterosexual intercourse can at times accidentally bring forth a baby which the human society always welcomes with open arms. God made sex to be pleasurable because if it wasn't the trouble that always comes with parenting would have been reason enough for nobody to bother about having babies. We use sex for pleasure just because we have understood how to avoid having babies whenever we engage in it. That is why lower animals have sex only when babies can come out of it. Man with higher intelligence has convinced himself that sex can be for fun, but having it with same sex partner is not only inappropriate but outright genocidal because encouraging such tendencies is equal to eliminating the human specie. Anytime we accept a homosexual couple we are sanctioning the elimination of not less than one life on earth.
FON E.

Emmanuel

Let me add this on the issue of homosexuality.
They always talk their rights of freedoms of choice being violated. All normal parents wish to see their off springs grow, live a good life and have a good family. These parents have a right to this, but these wayward individuals disregard their parents rights and wishes in preference to their selfish desires. Due to their self centered natures they see only their rights being violated and even those of the parents who spent sleepless nights bringing them up are not even considered. What they think about is their individual right to carnal pleasures.
What level of greed is that?
FON E

DaDiceman

Nje and Emmanuel, be humble enough to accept that not every Cameroonian shares your morality and believes in your "God" or a God. You are entitled to your moral values and beliefs, provided you don't hurt anyone. Similarly, adult consenting homosexuals are entitled to their own moral values, provided they don't hurt anyone. Any civilised country recognises the fact that homophobic bigots (like you) and homosexuals, are both equally entitled to protection under the law, to live peacefully according to your respective moral codes and beliefs. In contrast, medieval societies, like our Cameroon, think otherwise; permitting adult citizens to be persecuted by the law for forming loving relationships with each other. But it won't be this way forever, that's for sure.

katakata

TO ALL IGNORANT DOGS WITHOUT A CONSCIENCE

When I was young, I was told that the difference between humans and dogs lay not in their sexuality.
This is waht I was told:

" The diff. between a man and a dog is that if u pick both from the street and give them food and shelter, the Dog becomes your best friend and would guard your whole family against intruders, whereas the man whom u saved would go after your wife, your daughter, your savings and finally kill you"

The moral for people without moral on this forum is that GIVEN YOUR WISDOM AND CONSCIENCE, you have chosen to fall to a level below the dog which has no conscience.

For those who dont believe in a God and morals, let them look at themselves in a mirror and tell me what they see..Dont tell me you saw the reflection of a Dazzling Sir Galahad..You just saw YOUR ANIMAL SELVES...


Let Dogs dictate the tune and man shall continue to dance UNDAUNTED...


WHAT A CURSED GENERATION

MAN WEY I VEX , MAKE THAT MAN GO HANG!

KATAKATA

samleyin

Dadiceman,
You are the ignorant sodomite moving around with a dirty napkin. Before you stick pins in the eyes of others and force them to drink your dirty water of condoning gay attitudes watch the laguage u use to insult others. you lilliputians have gone nowhere with ur tiny nation inflicted with the prangs of corruption but have skipped to preaching the legality of sodomy. A toad struggling to grow teeth indeed.

Nobody will trample on others the way they want and force them to see evil as compliment because they are bonded in a vicious circle. I want you to know that the US itself in which u find urself has a constitution the recognises the existence of a God and that is what keeps it in that realm. didn't u get it when the military even had to fire gay soldiers? As you have concluded already, u may not believe in God but know that we the rest of cameroonians will do what ever it takes to save the rest from this sinful attitude that bleeds the nation and cries to the heavens for vengeance. I (and maybe others) have seen it very clear from from St. Paul’s Letter to the Romans, "For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that which is against nature. And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error." (Rom 1:26-27) And, from First Corinthians: “Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate [practicing homosexuals], nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.” (1 Cor. 6: 9-10) The sin of Sodom shall never find a place in my dear country because the voice of the people is the voice of God. For this I tell you that it shall always remain thesame. The don't ask don't say principle will never work in cameroon mr lawyer. Curse generation of assimilated africans indeed!

DaDiceman

Katakata, there are a lot of words that can describe Cameroon and Cameroonians, but a moral people isn't one of them by any stretch of the imagination......and it isn't because of lesbians!

You might do well to look in the mirror and see what is wrong with your society, rather than looking for scapegoats (real and imagined) as an opportunity to display to the world your frothy religiosity and "morals".

DaDiceman

Samleyin, I presume you are quoting from religious writings of some sort? Whatever you are quoting from seems to be filled with more hate than Hitler's Mein Kempf! You are entitled to use whatever hate manual you want as your moral compass in life, provided you don't hurt anyone.

My argument is that any civilised country should have laws to protect law-abiding consenting adult homosexuals from hatemongers like you. I genuinely believe we all want Cameroon to be a civilised country one day. It might take 300 years, but I think we will get there. Then, we can have laws which do not criminalise consenting adults of the same sex who decide, for their own personal reasons, to love each other, or maybe just to have sex with each other.

samleyin

Dadiceman,
my religion does not preach hate of any form. let me feed u with this;

You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I [Jesus] say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:43-48

I naturally hate gay people to the extend that I could kill 'em but for the sake of what I have quoted to u, i will pray for u to turn away from ur gay attitude.

Ma Mary

Samleyin= closeted homosexual

M Nje

DaDiceman,
I will repeat again that you make an apology to Azore Opio. You called him "ignorant homophobic fool." for doing his job. Have some respect for this audience.

You either need reading glasses or some form of reading comprehension training. Read the comments I made above. I made no reference to any God. You apparently concluded that I am advocating a particular religious teaching. That is the signs of naivety at its best. The human genital anatomy will tell you that homosexuality is wrong. Whether it was an act of God or by design, our reproductive organs were made for heterosexual relationship. They fit very well without any doubt. The human excretory system is functionally design to empty waste products from the body and not for sexual relationship. Homosexuality is as bad as stealing, murder, ....etc.

You have a right to practice it. Infact you can even practice group marriage, Incest, etc if you so desire. But you don`t have a right to force a society to accept your practice. Norms and values are set for social cohesion in any society. They identity what that society represents. If you don`t fill accepted in a society, you can move to where you will be accepted. To suggest that a society that tolerate homosexuality is a civilized society is the heart of ignorant. It give as inside to the shallow nature of your brain.

The second trying I recommend for you is on the history of human civilization. Get some training on that. You surely have a very retarded view of what civilisation is or should be. The argument against homosexuality is not only limited to religious believes. It is based on what a society considers acceptable.

DaDiceman

Samleyin and Nje, you can hate whoever you want, that is your prerogative. The point of my argument is that we need a change in the law in Cameroon, at some point, so that it is a deterrent for hateful people like you from actually acting on your hate. The law of the land as it stands at the moment gives homophobic hatemongers like you carte blanche against homosexuals; one can even go as far as saying it incites and justifies your hate. Any country whose laws incites or justifies hate cannot be called a civil country. The law must change.

felix

Ma Mary something is very very very wrong with you.
When people do not reason the way you do, they are either frogs or closeted homosexual.
MA Mary are you afraid to tell us you are a Lesbian by calling others gays or homosexuals?.I know most of you in the USA practice homosexualism because of money

Ma Mary

Very funny, Felix. I think you are another one of them cryptogays, if memory serves me well. One of the benefits of residing in the USA is the observation of sexual dynamics. One of the constants is that the most fiery gay haters here are men who are insecure in their own sexuality. They are the ones who want to put gays in a concentration camp and burn them.

People who are secure in their heterosexuality and are devoid of ambiguity (like yours truly) are generally unfazed by gays and their activities. One of the observations is that gayness appears to be inborn. Gayness can be spotted in boys as early as 3 years. They prefer to play with dolls and play house rather than to play with guns and trucks and mud like other little boys. They are effeminate in manner. That is how they are. Men who are secure in their heterosexuality, CANNOT be changed to like other men. Homosexuality cannot become rampant in the US, for example. It will end where it is right now, in terms of the numbers, and they are not taking over the planet. Again and again and again, men who have preached or voiced extermination of homosexuals when exposed have been shown to be gay themselves or living double lives.

Relax, gays will not take over the planet. Felix, are you still in the closet? Come out, please. One thing we ladies know is that gay men make nice friends for women, because they are often more girlish than the biologically female.

M Nje

Homosexuality is nurture and not a genetic mutation. It is a learned behavior that you consciously engaged in. People in heterosexual marriages who change to be homosexual dod so because they have learned or aquire such tendency from their society.

The human system is wired in such a way that your stimulus or hormones function based on your anatomy.

katakata

WHEN ONE LIVES BY VIRTUE OF THE DICE CAST

When I commented on lesbian and gays on this forum who hide behind different pseudos to protect their trade and filth, I never expected any of them to come out so suddenly to denounce themselves.

The Dice- prone man turned woman has just told us here that he has looked into the mirror, seen himself and is barking like a rabid dog that we MUST respect his choice.

Remember that though you treat morals and religioun as "filthy dregs" the real filth that you got yourself into is using ur phallus to explore the filthy walls of another man's faeces-laden anus..


Because cameroonians are corrupt, greedy, and practice all the bad stuff you can think about, DOES THIS MEAN THEY SHOULD CONTINUE SINKING INTO DEBAUCHERY?

The Dice throwing fellow can go hang.

KATAKATA


DaDiceman

Katakata, I am not a homosexual, never have been and never will be. I have homosexual friends, whose sexuality is no problem to me at all. They are lovely human beings, and that's all that matters to me. They certainly will find the sort of hate people like you habour quite alien.

However, my position on this topic is purely from a libertarian and social justice perspective. I believe that what sexual acts consenting adults indulge in within the privacy of their homes is nobody's business, certainly not the state's business. Taxpayers' money is not well spent prosecuting and jailing consenting adults who decide to have sex together. The law should acknowledge this by sparing us the absurdity of police and court time being wasted criminalising people who have harmed nobody. There is no evidence anywhere in the world that criminalising homosexuality prevents homosexual activity. So why continue with this charade in Cameroon?

Moreover, there is no correlation between a person's sexuality and their decency as a human being. Look at you, a red-blooded heterosexual, but full of anger and hate! You are in the majority in most societies because you are heterosexual, and so you face no persecution because of your sexuality. Why are you so angry and hateful then? Your heterosexuality has certainly not made you a tolerant and considerate human being, has it?

samleyin

Ma Mary,
What ever is my sexual orientation, I don't give a damn about what people WHO GO FOR BRAIN TRANSPLANT AND THE BRAIN REJECTS THEM may think. Of course what should we expect from a woman of your age that keeps looking at the likes of NDAM NJOYA WITH LUSTFUL EYES. JUST HOPE U WON'T LOOK AT UR SON WITH TINTED GLASSES WHEN HE RETURNS HOME SOMEDAY WITH HIS BOYFRIEND. ´samleyin =hommosexual in the closet'; THE MOST STUPID STATMENT OF ALL TIME. MAYBE YOU ARE JUST POSSESSED BY A RETARDED GHOST.

felix

Ma mary if you belief that anti-gay proponents are shy closeted gay themselves, then by same token, you are telling us in this forum that you are a paid French/l’ republic agent who is bent to see the continue enslavement and looting of the African people especially the people of Southern Cameroon and by this you decides to use scnc as your window dressing.
From their words we shall know them.

felix

Ma Mary = closet cpdm. By your words we now know who really you are.Gradually you are showing us your true self

faarman

Azore Opio’s plan has worked
Who really cares if you; DaDiceman is a homosexual or not? Who cares even if you have such friends or not? What we care and the genesis of all these exchange of anger and vengeance is from your condemnation and insults to the writer (Opio). He deserves an apology you know? These are the people who make you know the little about your country from where ever crip you are located. You should show some appreciation and consideration when you address them.

I don’t think you have as much academic background, work and traveling experiences as Opio does such that you go to such an extend to insult him ignorant fool ect.

You were so quick to bounce back without thinking twice of what he actually meant. Like Maria said, you need your reading glasses or may ask literates to read and interpret for you. From the manner of the article and reading with diligent eyes, it is clear that there is something more behind the seen still to be uncovered.

Who knows, maybe Azore deliberately instigated you to react that violent as you just did and show the world how stupid you are. The voice of Cameroonians should be hared on their stand on Homosexualism.
This is the time. Thanks Opio, your plan worked so well. I think it is time to unleash the dragon of homosexuality and let bruts like DaDiceman empty what they have. Let’s see if something will change after that.
Sweden

DaDiceman

Faarman, it is good you don't care whether or not I am homosexual. That's good, that's the way the world should be; people being treated according to the content of their character not according to their sexuality.

You are right, compared with Azore Opio I am as educated and cultured as a chimpanzee; but this is one chimpanzee who will not, like Azore Opio under the guise of investigative journalism, stir up hatred against a persecuted subset of my fellow citizens. Life will be just that bit brighter not having to read the bigoted trash that Cameroon "journalists" like Azore Opio disseminate. I have absolutely no respect for anyone who under the guise of journalism stirs up bigotry.

As you can obviously deduce the difference between you and I is that, to borrow from your words, my bugbear is the "dragon of bigotry" while yours is "the dragon of homosexuality". At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with being different from each other, provided we are all the same before the law. Which is the point of my argument about the unjust nature of Cameroon's law towards our fellow citizens who happen to be homosexual.

Stay blessed!

nahjela

Well said DaDiceman. Don't mind them! Some of them are here spitting fire when behind closed doors they like going through the 'back door' when having sex with their girlfriends. How different are they then from the homosexuals??? Nonsense!

Danny Boy

Dadiceman, I have been watching this imbroglio from the side-lines and I must commend you for standing your grounds on a question of principles. The law is there to protect all irrespective of one's sexual orientation. If in Cameroon this is not the case, you are right in pointing out that this is sexual discrimination. The state can not and should not legislate on matters of this kind. Doing so will be a mistake.
In early 19th century Britain, people were being sent to jail for crimes of indecency. A famous example being Oscar Wilde, a prominent literary figure. He is author of the novel, " The importance of being earnest." and "The Ballads from Reading goal.", amongsts others. I am not a literary historian. If interested one can always do some research.
Why I mention the case of Oscar Wilde is simply this, in his day, homosexuality was a taboo subject and anybody found guilty of practising homosexuality would be sent to jail. Today in Britain, homophobia is punishable by law. It is a type of discrimination and like other forms of discrimination, denies this group their citizenship. By acknowledging this deviancy, Britain is a better and richer society today. You only need to look at the contributions of Sir Elton John, Sir Ian Mckellan, Sir. John Geilgud, George Michael and many others in the Arts, to understand why sexual preference is of little importance to nation building. These persons have done more to the common good of their country than most heterosexuals who rely on the state to cater for Adam's legacy!!
Dadiceman, you need not apologise to Azore Opio. Had this jopurnalist done his home-work(research), we would not be arguing on what he wrote or failed to. He promised in his openning statements to "dig deep" but what one gets are a collection of dis-jointed sentences!
Tolerance my Dear Friends is all I ask and pray for. Live and let live. It is a wonderful world. There is more to it than meets the eye. Anatomically speaking, between the male and female genders is a murky area Science is still exploring. Surely most of you have heard of bi-sexuals, in lower organisms we would call these hermaphrodites. Then there are the transvestites!!!
Are these God's creation or the Devil's? What if this description applies to your brother/sister? Would you kill him/her?
In conclusion may I inform that the word lesbian comes from a colony of Amazons who were discovered on the Greek island of Lesbos!!

vito

Nonsense!Britain wasnt built on homosexuality.Its an ostentation that came along with success, not the opposite.Utter nonsense.The law in Cameroun forbids homosexuality.Period!You dont like it, stay out here where its allowed;Stupid offsprings of homosexuals!
Najela,heterosexual anal sex and hoùmosexuality are worlds apart,conceptually speaking.

DaDiceman

Vito, somebody is talking nonsense, yes utter nonsense, that's for sure! However, I think you are looking at the person talking nonsense in the wrong direction. I know it might be hard for you to see who is talking nonsense. Let me help you by giving you a clue of who is talking nonsense. Just look in the mirror............that's the clue!

You say the law in Cameroon forbids homosexuality. Tell us something we don't know! If you bothered reading the earlier parts of this thread you will know that we are all aware of this fact. Did you say that just to hear the sound of your own voice? Repeating facts to us that we all know and have discussed earlier is a form of nonsense. Wouldn't you agree? The sort of nonsense one says in the middle of a discussion when one has nothing new to add to a discussion, but one has the urge to "say something". In other words, talking nonsense.

You also talk about "stupid offsprings of homosexuals". I don't mind the "stupid" part of that sentiment, I plead guilty to that. But come on vito, "offsprings of homosexuals"? Would I exist if my parents were homosexuals? Now, vito, you got to admit that is talking utter nonsense!

vito

Clueless queer Dadiceman.That's plain dumb 'madam'!Offsprings of homosexuals was meant to get you thinking about your vice;short of saying it was an insult.

vito

Silly Dadiceman,what you call civilised nations werent built on indulgence but sacrifice.Ever heard of the prohibition?It jump-started the American economy and let me tell you if there's another depression the'll do it again.Build your nation then indulge if you like ;not the reverse.

Danny Boy

Vito, how is the statement, " Britain wasn't built on homosexuality" remarkably different from my assertion that, "sexual preference is of little importance to nation building."?
As for the insult, I could call you worse but I am not going to fall for your bait. I think Dadiceman in his gentlemanly measured tone has answered you already.
Get out of your pulpit and do a little research on this subject. Whilst we are still on this topic, I will regard homosexuals as better human beings than the custodians of your bible who molest little boys!!! There are many in Cameroon. What are you going to do about it?

vito

Danny boy what you call sexual preference here is a crime in Cameroun.Here there are options because they've 'arrived';and they didnt get here by condoning nonsense but by proscribing it.

Ma Mary

More harm is done to society by the antisodomy crusading, bible-thumping haters than by the sexual queerness of a few. That is why the antisodomy laws were repealed in most of western countries in the 1950s and 1960s. What most of you are misinterpreting as "our laws and traditions" against sodomy, are infact old laws from the West still in the books. Some of those colonial laws included public flogging of recalcitrant natives as the sentence of courts. I wonder why those were not kept. The Bible also says delinquent children should be stoned to death; and seems quite happy with incest in some cases. That is why I personally reject that hoary book and elect to use my brain and heart instead.

I have worked with people who are of homosexual orientation, and infact one of my grandnieces is gay. These are harmless people who need protection from the moral neanderthals concealing and justifying their hatred with leaves from the bible. Live and let live!

DaDiceman

This Bible that Africans cannot seem to live without at the moment, and that they use to justify hate, has a most fascinating place in African history. Is this not the same book that our forefathers had to be forced at gunpoint to believe in by European colonialists? I am sure our ancestors who died fighting, not to be converted to organised religion, against Europeans bearing the Bible and guns will have a laugh, or maybe cry, at the irony of where we find ourselves today. As they say, if you live long enough you will see everything! In this case it is the good fortune of our ancestors that they did not live long enough to see this pathetic spectacle of Africans using the Bible to justify hate.

Maybe those brave souls, without our so-called modern education, were prescient enough to know that there is no more insufferable and tiresome a human being as a Bible-carrying African preaching hellfire and eternal damnation to his fellow citizens who do not live by "the good book". It is to our great misfortune that our ancestors lost that battle. Now, we are condemned to live forever with African Christian fanatical fundamentalists breathing fire while quoting from the Bible. Spare us the humbug guys!

felix

Ahahahah, Ma Mary I know you will come out to prove that gayness is in the blood( Genes).If I can quote you "One of the observations is that gayness appears to be inborn" there goes your grandnieces and so there goes u too.
Should harden criminals be allow to go free in society simple because they have some family blood flowing in their veins? Grand Kumba in his interview made such an assertion about grand uncle been a thief……………………………………..
If it proves beyond all scientific knowledge today that gayness is a social phenomenon will you take your family to a mental clinic?
I said it above that your ability to quickly condemn moral people as gay is to hide your true nature .There is no escape even after changing the tune from closet shy gays to moral Neanderthals.Now we have got a good picture about you back "HYPOCRITE"

vito

It has nothing to do about the bible.The coran,torah etc,including our TAR's all condemn homosexuality.The law forbids and we condemn the act and its perpetrators but we dont hate them.Its all about habits ,contrary to Ma Mary's attempt to disinform the public.A homosexual gene is yet to be identified; infact it doesnt exist,so its all about habits and bad habits for sure.Take smoking for example;one cant hate smokers,though theirs is an unhealthy vice also.it'd be interesting to have an essay from the Mac Lucifers on the forum on the discrimination campaign and bigotry cum hate mongery against public smokers going on in Europe;civilised Europe that is.

vito

...nothing to do with...

Ma Mary

I don't know about genes, sir, but people do appear to be born with SOME tendencies. There is a lot of evidence for that. That is really not the point. The point is that people need to be protected against invasions of their civil rights by self appointed moral police. Vito brings up the issue of public smoking. There is such a thing as second hand smoke, which can be harmful to others. Countries wish to reduce their health care bills caused by smoking-related diseases and one way of doing so is to reduce inadvertant exposure of the innocent bystander to cigarete fumes. If you are one of those fume factories on two legs feeling restricted by antismoking edicts, I say ashia

vito

No Ma mary i dont smoke.Never saw the sense in it but i know for sure its a bad HABIT butlesser so than homosexuality.At least they're inhaling gases into thier respiratory systems and not semen into the DIGESTIVE SYSTEM.But then there we have civilzed poeple infringing on theitr rights to damage their bodies,because it s a bad habit.A habit,just a habit lady.If you're so bothered about second hand smoke then i wonder what you'd do about the filth the so called civilized nations are choking us with.My point was for the proponents of unlimitted civil rights to present an argument for the 'miserable,maligned, marginalised, hated' public smokers.For the 'nga'ranting about consenting adults;its not because a man consents to be eaten by another man that the act should be admissible in a country where cannibalism is illegal.

katakata

Every society has its values..Take away these values and the very quintessence of its existence dies with the values thus adulterated.

Azoro Opio promised digging , yet gave us just tidbits… I don’t hold him guilty for that. Instead I congratulate him for bringing up such a topic which has certainly left many an ink-horn dry by now. If he had “dug and brought out” the real matter as it were, then I am sure his findings would have been subject for debate over the next couple of months.

AZORO OPIO YOU DID WELL TO LIMIT YOUR DIGGINGS.

Back to society. Some laws are written out and enforced for all to abide by. Some laws are just laws of conscience. If you have an active conscience it will guide you through small do and don’ts. But if your conscience, (that invisible organ within us that moves us to determine right from wrong) is DEAD, just like the consciences of some people here is dead then no matter what the written law says, The dice man will continue living his life daily as if being alive were for him a matter of tossing the dice and getting the right number.

I believe the dice man now lives in a strange refuge city where homosexuals and lesbians practice their trade unperturbed by the laws of that land. Being so educated he has allowed himself to be easily brainwashed to accept the same practices he never knew about while in Cameroon. I am just as certain that the dice man has pretty junior sisters from same parents. HIS SISTERS ( especially MA MARY) SHOULD BEWARY OF THIS THEIR BROTHER WHO NOW SWEARS ACCORDING TO THE DEGENERATE NORMS OF THE WEST. IF THEY GIVE HIM THE CHANCE, HE WILL RAPE THEM AT FIRST OPPORTUNITY SIMPLY BECAUSE HIS FRIENDS IN THE WEST WHERE HE NOW RESIDES DO SAME AGAINST THEIR SISTERS AND COUSINS AND THE DICE MAN FINDS NOTHING WRONG IN THAT..DICE MAN OBOSSO…na western ideology give you..DONT FORGET TO BRING YOUR GUN AND SHOOT ALL THOSE WHO SPEAK AGAINST YOUR HIGHLY CIVILIZED WESTERN PHILOSOPHIES.

Our Cameroonian society has its values where brother and sister cannot inter marry, or where distant cousins don’t inter marry. Yet is a common practice in the civilized west to marry your cousin. So We Must satisfy the nuances of a certain dice thrower and accept all his gibberish rubbish.

Yes if your parents were gays, you wont exist dice man. Instead of showing appreciation for their adherence to the values (heterosexual bonds) you will rather advocate for mass homosexual relationships. What a petty show of your self-centeredness,Greed and hatred for the children yet to be born who according to you shouldn’t be born at all. Do you think your birth signaled the end of any other births??


Civilized people according to the dice man and his puppet team would want us to define a civilized nation as : ONE THAT ALLOWS ALL THE ILLS AND EVILS WHICH THE COSCIENCE THAT KNOWS NEITHER BIBLE NOR KORAN OUT RIGHTLY REJECTS AS WRONG..AS A NATION WHOSE CITIZENS WALLOW IN WANTON SODOMY , FORNICATION, STREET ABORTIONS ,INSECURITY AND MASS LIES TELLING AND SLAUGHTERING OF INNOCENT CITIZENS OF IRAQ.

Let the dice man taste his own daughter like soup and see how sweet she is before deciding what her suitor pays for bride price…after all there is no law in his conscience that retains him from doing that..afterall he is the cook and must taste before selling to outsiders..

If you have a conscience then let it live and say your excuses to all you have wronged with these your idiotic wranglings..

As for me , I owe you no apology..

GO AND BUILD YOUR OWN SOCIETY WITHOUT LAWS AND WITHOUT A COLLECTIVE CONSCIENCE.

My request to you remains same: IF YOUR HEAR VEX PLENTY GO HANG

KATAKATA


DaDiceman

Katakata, Azore Opio's article tells you that some of our fellow citizens in Cameroon are homosexuals. The article tells you of some who have been prosecuted for homosexuality. The article even names a woman in Wum who is a homosexual and quotes her. So, there is homosexuality going on in Cameroon whether you like it or not.

With the existence of homosexuality in Cameroon a reality, with no indication that it will be "eradicated", and with the existence of hate-filled homophobic Cameroonian bigots like you, my position is that our fellow citizens who are homosexuals should be protected by law from bigots like you. They are as Cameroonian as you, they are as human as you, and they are not hurting anyone. The law needs to change to protect them from the likes of you.

Danny Boy

Katakata, your sCURrilous assertions above only prove that you are a sanctimonous bigot. So you believe in the laws of Cameroon now that it suits you? Will you be voting in the up-coming elections?

"the dice man now lives in a strange refuge city where homosexuals and lesbians practice their trade unperturbed by the laws of that land."

Is this how you understand this debate? So to you it is a trade!! Mr. Surgeon, didn't you do any biology at all or are you a quack?
Wonders will never end. A cameroonian doctor claims homosexuality is a trade!!!
What says thou, Mr Azore Opio?
God bless this forsaken land.

katakata

TWO BLIND MICE

The larger the mirror, the more imposing the image.

When the mind is narrow, so too are the thoughts that spring from within.

Daniel,lived to a ripe old age, defying powerful babylonian kings..He was a real man full of wisdom.

When a boy called Daniel who shall for ever remain a boy bathes himself in a pool of ignorance, why should we blame him?

Daniel,my wonderment is great to read that you have problems with my use of the phrase " practise their trade".

While this is very irrelevant to this debate, permit me though to give you another of the many defintions associated to the verb :to trade.

Trade up: exchange of one thing for another.

When men lie with men, what do they trade up in the course of this obnoxious act? Since one of the men becomes the "wife" in this accursed relationship, the he-she becomes emasculated( castrated)as it were thereby trading up his masculinity in the process.

I think Daniel the boy shall make a good wife for the dice man.
happy wedlock.

Finally, the debate here is not to ban lesbians, and homosexuals and robbers. The debate is centred around the wrongness of these acts within our courtyards. We say it is not correct even though people practice it.

Even Daniel the boy , while a kid knew very well that fornication is wrong, but he still went on with the practice..Now a grown up boy, he is telling the kids that there is nothing wrong with fornication, robbery and stealing.

A thought escaped me..I wonder why the dice man didnt argue that the cook must taste his soup..or maybe he doesnt wish to hurt his wife Daniella..

Does the dice man believe in laws that would protect homosexuals while daniella asserts a strong contempt for those laws???


These two blind mice shall never stop surprising us.....


KATAKATA

Fon

"Homosexuals are as Cameroonian as you, they are as human as you, and they are not hurting anyone" (DaDiceman)

DaDiceman,
Your strong point is that homosexuals should be protected by law since they do not hurt any one while that of Katakata is that the values of a society need to be preserved.

Katakata has asked you an important question which if you respond, I will come in fully into the debate. Let me remind you again, given that if a man lure the daughter into sexual intercourse, it will definitely not hurt anyone (assume the wife is no longer alive). Is this act an acceptable behaviour? What is your opinion here?
Remember there is a difference between the laws and norms of a society.

Danny Boy, what do you also think?

samleyin

Katakata you said it all and I think I owe you much. You see desperate people looking for any thing to lean on. When a grumpy old lesbian becomes so obsessed with a country that any thing laid down as it laws is wrong, she turns around to expose her abominable sexual orientation by calling people names.

Rambling seems to be flowing in the genes as a new form of excuse.When Vito points out clearly that homosexuality is an oestentation that comes along with success and not vice versa, they ask him what he said and claim it was said before. when katakata uses ´trade´ to disseminate what he actualy mean, they cling on it to misquote him. feel good as he came back to hit the sores again. Let them acually go hang. it is and remains a crime in cameroon. if you want to get on with it stay in your adopted home otherwise you become are convicted while in cameroon. period.

Desparate people with no character trait who cannot challenge their basic fears. Gayness is all about weaknesses we find and it is painful to acknowledge.homosexuality is a problem of a choice rather than a biological situation. the very wrong choice. Liars. no child is born gay. it is the dirty habbits they cultivate from others in their adulthood. Maybe coming under a heavy indictment may help to acknowlege their willingness for a right course. condoning gayness and then you talk of developing characters in your neice or whatever? where is the consistency in the set of values from which you originate? Where exactly is their integrity? I wonder if this words of theirs are flowing from honest convictions. A homosexual man is stereotypically worst, cannot stand firm in his own faith, weak and lacks every iota of courage because inwardly he shudders at the darkness and the ugliness that is there as he has been transformed into a 'man server'. If not why don't you homosexuals pointing fingers come out in the open? Stop labeling your challengers gay and accept the attribute; what you practice,if you know it is right.

As practice makes perfect, another dumb scoundrel with a dense concentration of
dullness gets on to posture on what she practice with the boy friend rogue. You fornicators should be ashame to expose your selves in such a forum. Silence helps sometimes.

A disgrace to southern camroonians. We don't want a southern Camroon where gays will come to dictate the laws of our land. Azore Opio u just exposed some of the hidden vices which portrays that our course is being delayed by the almighty for natural cleansing to take place.

Homosexuality, crime, and drug and alcohol abuse appear to be barometers of social stress... Criminals help produce other criminals, drug abusers other drug abusers, and homosexuals other homosexuals (Hebert Hedin, criminologist) you homosexuals and lesbians in this forum should go get some help.

Fon

Samleyin,
While I join you and Katakata to condenm homosexuality, a thing that even animals do not do; I think those arguing infavour of it are not themselves homosexuals. From how I see, they simply want to express their wrong and misleading views on the topic.

Danny Boy

Katakata, I asked you some pertinent questions above and in your response, all you can muster is a kindergarten rhyme? I would have thought you a Jehovah Witness understands the evils of persecution. A few decades ago you and your religious brethren were driven underground by an unjust law. It took the concerted efforts of many to convince the government that you are not a threat to the country for this law to be repealed. What is it you were being persecuted for? Your set of beliefs?
I believe you are a doctor. Why not allay the fears of the ignorant in this forum who believe that lesbians can not have children, by telling them that medical advances today make it possible for them to have children and many have taken advantage of this?
Why keep hiding behind the bible Katakata? You are a Scientist. Is homosexuality really a fad as some claim above? Tell them the truth, teach them, if you do not, you are doing yourself and your religion a disservice.
As for your acolytes, all I can say to them is that they were born at the wrong time and in the wrong country. Hitler would have been proud to make good of their services, stoking the flames in the concentration camps.

DaDiceman

Fon, I am sure if you are intelligent enough to use the internet you must be intelligent enough to know the difference between consenting adults having sex and incest. But then again, just as you bigots use crude vulgarities as a distracting tactic to justify your homophobia, it suits your purpose to talk about incest rather than homosexuality, the topic of interest here.

Fon

DaDiceman, insulting me will not let you out of your own snare. Your strong point in the debate is that homosexuals should be protected because their actions do not hurt any one; you don´t care about values of a society. I broght in the issue of incest in order to bring you to reason; is incestuous union a taboo in many societies because the act hurts others?
Just as incest is a taboo in our society, so is homosexuality; the act must not necessarily hurt others directly before it is condemned.

M Nje

Good job KATAKATA. I did asked the same question about incest to our homosextualy advocate. But they can`t answer. It is a shame for lack of a better word.

Fon, DaDiceman cannot show any consistence on incest. Here is the question again: a parent who is 50 years has a sexualy relationship with his 23 years old daughter. According to Dadiceman, that is a relationship between two concenting adult.

So here is the Question to you again Mr. Dadiceman and your advocate friends. Is this relationship okay? If not why. After all it too place in their bedroom.

DaDiceman

Nje, if a 50year old man and his 23year old daughter consent to having sex, I do not want my taxes being used to prosecute them. They are adults, and if that is their value system, it is not my business and it certainly shouldn't be the state's business either. I can think of better use of police and court time than imposing "moral values" on adults who make lifestyle choices which harm nobody. Except you want to go down the route of some Muslim countries with religious police.

Now that we've that we have put your obsession with sex between parents and their offspring to rest lets talk about a society's values. Fon, the values of a society can be wrong. Admittedly, the values of a society do reflect the society at a particular point in time, and the laws of that society generally reflect those values. In other words, values which might be acceptable at one point in time might eventually be seen to be unacceptable as time goes one. It is logical for the laws to then change to reflect those changed society values. For example, before the civil rights legislation in the United States of America, all over the American south, black people were being beaten at lunch counters, or at voter registration drives or when peacefully protesting in the street, or even when worshipping in their churches. Those were the values of that society then. With the introduction of civil rights legislation in the US in the 1960s this no longer was tolerable. The law changed to reflect changed society values.
However, I do concede that before the law in Cameroon against homosexuals changes, we first have to change the homophobic bigoted values of a lot of Cameroonians. Hopefully, debates such as this is a starting point in demonstrating to Cameroonians the futility of using the law to persecute consenting adults of the same sex who decide to have sex in the privacy of their own homes, or just to love each other in a romantic way.

Danny Boy

M Nje, I suppose your morals are derived from the bible. If you are so knowledgeable of this good book and believe every word there-in, then tell me this, how could Adam's family multiply without incestous intercourse?
You answer that and I might engage you on a contemporary issue-paedophilia in Cameroon! Now that is a more serious problem than homosexuality.
All I ask is do your research. I do not suffer fools gladly.
Blessed be all Cameroonians.

Ma Mary

To a certain degree, this is a failure to distinguish between what one's religion regards as sinful and what should be legal in a pluralistic society. These have to separated for good reason. What a muslim or a traditionalist or a Catholic regard as sin can be very different. These are religions. People who ascribe to no religion at all MUST have space too. Sin and law

As a rule, it is a mistake for any government to concern itself with the activities of two consenting adults within their private space. Intrusion into private space of this sort signals the beginning of damage to other civil liberties.

Categories of sex that should be criminal to my mind include:

• Rape or forced or coerced sex of any kind.
• Sex with a minor or with somebody impaired in other ways.
• Public sexual intercourse, even between consenting people
• Certain kinds of prostitution. The kind of prostitution that comes to mind is the trading of sexual favors for power, influence and public finances. The kind of homosexual sex rings that were described a few months ago in the Camerounese government comes to light. It is not the homosexuality which is the problem but the sexual corruption, which would be wrong under circumstances.

One thing that history has taught us is that the religions should not be given the power to coerce, because they quickly become like Talibans. In a diverse society, it is better to live under laws than to live under religion. The power to end sin comes from within. The power to coerce comes from law and has to be reasonable, relatively liberal and fair to all and equitable in its execution. Problem is that too many Christians are too busy to BE Christians because they are trying too hard to remake others.

M Nje

Danny Boy,
You make the same assumption DaDiceman made.

My case against homosexual tendency comes from common sense. It has nothing to do with the bible. The human genital anatomy does not make any provision for homosexual behavior, neither is there any genetic trait for homosexuality. Homosexuality is a learned behavior like smoking, drug trafficking, etc,etc. These (homosexual) are people who for reason know to them decide to use their body for purposes other than what they were made for. I will refer you to any literature that deals with the human reproductive system. Study it very well and you will see how our system was design for heterosexual relationship. The male and female reproductive systems both complement each other. One cannot function well without the other. The answer is in the study of BIOLOGY.

DaDicemen,
If you think that a sexual relationship between a 50 years old father and his 23 years old daughter is okay, then there is nothing for me to talk about. The best of luck in your CIVILIZATION: the right for any or all to be homosexual or practice incest.

We do not share the same moral values. That is the bottom like. Under no circumstances will I express any regards to homosexual tendency or incest. Never.

But remember that there is no relationship between the civil right struggle in the US and homosexuality. It is degrading to those who fought and died for that struggle if you treat the two as similar in any form. The two are neither equal or related. Martin Luther King Jr. fought for equal right for all. Example: Black Americans did not have the right to equal educational facilities like whites. Homosexual are asking for “special rights”. Rights that even the human genital anatomy does not support.

Danny Boy

M Nje,
given that you are fixated with sexual intercourse, the reason for your disparaging take on homosexuality(lesbianism), can I advise you to visit a sex shop and see what is there for their amusement. It is her body and her choice. Who are you to say this is wrong?
When you talk of the study of Biology, may I enquire whether you are abreast with the advances in genetic engineering and modern medicine today, or are you still stuck in M.B.V Roberts'; Biology, A Functional Approach?
Your common sense is fine but very dangerous. With such common sense we might go down the path of NAZIS, round up all homosexuals and Jews and put them in gas chambers. Remember this was only 60 years ago!!

DaDiceman

Another example, Nje. There were many countries, including so-called developed countries, which did not allow women to vote at political elections only within the last 100years. Those were the values then. Those values have changed, and so has the law in a significant majority of countries. Today, countries that don't allow women to vote are in the minority globally. Is that a more appropriate example for you as to how laws do change to reflect changes in a society's values?

As a matter of interest, has anyone on this forum come across a proven remedy for linear thinking? Some of us could do with it.

M Nje

Danny Boy,
If you say it is their body and their choice, then I have these question for you:

Do you think polygamy and incest should be punishable?

Do you think drunk driving should be punishable?

Do you think people should be persecuted for possession of drugs in their home?

After all the people who do the things in the aforementioned questions do them to themselves hence should be left alone. But in the same society in which homosexual are allowed these things are punishable.

I brought in Biology to make the point that the anatomy and physiology of our reproductive system is made for heterosexual relationship and not for homosexuality. Even in advance plants like following plants you always have male and female gamete coming together to produce up spring.

This anatomy and physiology of our reproductive system will remain the same for the next millions of years. No matter the advancement of science, we are not going to have homosexual males capable of producing ovaries nor are we going to have homosexual female producing spermatozoa.

Wether it is by design or an act of God, it will remain a fact, one that can be proven in science, that human beings were made for heterosexual relationship and not for homosexuality.

Comparing homosextual to Jews under NAZIS just shows how weak your case It has no merit of facts to support it. There are facts in science (Biology) to support the view that mankind was made for heterosexual relationship. But none of you have provided any fact to support homosexuality. To argue that it should be allowed because some people want it is just a joke. If one uses that logic, then drug addicts will argue for the right to posses and use drug. The list of such sick people who want their behavior to be tolerated will never end. That is why we make laws.

You can compare homosexuality to the struggle in South Africa, the First and Second World War, or the Civil Right Struggle in America, the War in Iraq if you like. But that will not make those struggle similar in any way or form to homosexual behavior . One point is clear, and that is homosexuality is a behavioral disorder. To be specific, it is a mental problem. The other struggle are not.

DaDiceman,
As I said to Danny Boy you can compare homosexual demands to anything you want including the world in Iraq. But that will not make it right. You have failed to point one fact that support homosexual tendency. There is a lot of fact in science to support the assertion that mankind was made for heterosexual relationship and not homosexuality.

What will you tell you child or grand schild. That when a MAN and a MAN have a sexual relationship, one of them fertilizes the excretory waste of the other with his spermatozoa to produce what? FERTILIZED feces?The bottom line is that the human excretory pipeline was made to empty human digestive waste products.

Unfortunately, you are willing to support a dirty and nasty use of this pipeline by homosexual for sexual pleasure.

As I said earlier, I do not share your moral values and never will.

M Nje

"grand schild" should read "grandchild"

Danny Boy

Mr. M Nje,
don't you know when a battle is lost or do you want to be humiliated further? Even those who have been leading your charge have turned tail.
I will not answer any of your questions above because these are so asinine!
Examples are not comparisons. It is a fact that homosexuals and Jews were put in gas chambers by the NAZIS!!!!
So you think you can teach me Biology? When I mentioned the textbook- Biology, A Functional approach, you should at least have read between the lines. It is thirty years ago I used it for my A/Ls!!!
Advanced plants, by these you mean angiosperms. Main reproductive organ, the flower. Now this is a small assignment for you. Pick any flower of your choice, the hibiscus is common, disect it and label the parts. If you know any Biology at all, you should realise that the male(stamen) and female(pistil)reproductive organs are present within the same flower.
In animals, man inclusive,we will call such an organism a hermaphrodite. There are many persons born with this "defect", so to speak! True. Outwardly you see a gorgeous chick,big bossoms,etc, but my brother, her testoterone level is just as high as yours!
Surely you have heard of sex change operations. Ask yourself, why would anybody go under the knife for such an operation?
From your write up above, it is evident that you are not a Biologist or a student of. Do some research and maybe, just maybe you will come to empathise with this minority.
Finally, you do not need to be scatalogical to express you point of view.

M Nje

Danny Boy,
You are right. I am not a Biologist. But I know a little to differentiate between fantasy and nature. I brought the example of flowering plants to make a point: you need male and female gametes even in plants.

Yes, the stamen and pistil are in the same plant but they undergo sexual reproduction not otherwise. Also, it is not a "defect" in flowering plants to have both gametes on the same plant as you indicated. That is the norm for them.

Also, my language may be obscene as you indicated. I certainly tried to be as respectful to readers as I could. There is no doubt it is a reflection of the practices in question. A clear attempt to descript it will sound scatological. But that is what it is.

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