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« Form Four Student Gets 12-Year Imprisonment | Main | The Post Front Page-Friday, October 5, 2007. »

Friday, 05 October 2007

Comments

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Ted

Did any diplomatic court conduct any election in Cameroon? why run on the wrong road? Mr. chairman, remember that the electorate you thwarted their attempts at voting several times had been staunch loyalists to the SDF party and it should be reasonably asked why have they turned against their party?

Fon

Ted,
In your opinion, what reasons do you think actuated those who you claim were once staunch SDF loyalists to turn against the party?

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Fru Ndi is adopting SCNC'S strategy or is it the other way around? running in and out of international courts without grassroot support. The people of Cameroon are lukewarm towards politics because they are disillusioned. Fru Ndi needs to spark their interest again like he did in 1992. He needs to make them believe that he is not just offering false promises while waiting for his very FAT checque from ETOUDI. To be honest with you, I doubt if the old man still has those skills. There is no more magic left in his bag of tricks. Fru Ndi has to learn that, "An actor leaves the stage while there's still applause". It is only when you have the people's trust and support that any kind of success can follow.
Fru Ndi, don't liken yourself to the mad professor who runs up and down campus with huge briefcases and stacks of papers trying to construct theories. In the end, none of his students understand him because his mind is too crowded with knowledge. He is sacked because of his inability to transmit his knowledge and his wisdom is wasted.

7512wilson

Poor SDF, Biya's dictatorial regime has reduced the SDF party to beggars. Well, at least you have succeeded in getting a parliamentary group. Lets wait and see what will happen when Biya introduce the bill to seek another term in office. The dictator is 79 years old and already wearing diapers. He even needs an occasional overdose of Viagra every now and then just to satisfy Chantal. Nature is catching up on him just like his best friend Owona who at moment is fighting for his life at a Paris hospital. Owona is 80 years now. How cruel life can be. Despite all the power and greed, there comes the time when death comes knocking. Biya's next medical exam will soon be due. I hope his doctor tells him to resign, just like they did Ahidjo.
Patience is a virtue, war is not the answer.
Freedom is Near.
God bless Cameroonians.

rexon

We warned you, dont go, you went. We asked you to call for your few parliamentarians to boycott Camerounese parliament and join other Southern Cameroonian partriots who are fighting for our independent statehood, you refused. All this because of greed. Now, because Mr Biya has reduced the seats he normally gives you after his charades, you are talking of going to Banjul. Funning indeed. Was it not thesame Banjul that you rebuked Southern Cameroonian partriots for taking our case to? Anything functioning on falsehood cannot prosper. We created the SDF as a "front" to liberate the Southern Cameroons and help our brothers of La Republique to go out of the claws of neo-colonial france. It was never a "political party" for politicians to make money from. Since you and your gang decided to take it for business with Biya, "constantly colouring his democracy", why are you regretting now that he has abandoned you? Mr Biya no longer needs the SDF.

Everybody knows that the SDF is more of a think-tank and an NGO. As a think, mr Biya uses the SDF to cherry pick ideas to fool Cameroonians. As an NGO, they have been acting as a protest group to give the impression that there is democracy in Cameroon and Mr Biya listen to those who protest.

Let the SDF stop all this distraction. If they think they are up to any good, they should boycott Camerounese politics and parliament and join us in our headquarters in Buea.

rexon

All this SDF stuff is just a distraction. NJFN can never govern La Republique as that is not his country. He should join the different instruments fostering the Southern Cameroonian course where he belongs. We have our own politics and he can either join one of them or dissolve his SDF and create an entirely new party registered under the laws of the Southern Cameroons. At least, he would not be mocking himself and his Southern Cameroonians brothers and sisters in the politics of a foreign land.

simplice

"The dictator is 79 years old and already wearing diapers. He even needs an occasional overdose of Viagra every now and then just to satisfy Chantal" 7512Wilson

Biya is 74 years old; not 79.(First Sentence)
As to the second sentence,may I inquire if it's homour or facts?.Please, I think even when criticing an enemy, there're certain codes of honour that should be maintained gentleman. Biya, might be really bad, but keep his sexual life out of politics.Else, you loose your gentlemanly profile.

simplice

"Everybody knows that the SDF is more of a think-tank and an NGO" by Rexon
Rexon, when making this assertion, where you spirited by some bias concern for the SDF or factual evidence that cement the sound respect we have for any gentleman on this forum?.I say so because, what you use futher to substantiate your "beer-parlour" fact or "soup-kitchen" hypothesis, isn't diserving of any serious attention/examination.
Please when next you're making such a "Ben-Skin-Ridder" statement, put it in inverted commas, so we understand; it's still hypothetical.

simplice

Ted , we still await your response to Fons question for we need to be educated on it.

simplice

I hope the "Rexonists" on this forum will understand from USAFrica's comment that, he's neither of the SDF nor the CPDM faction.

Nay, USAfrica, please you forget putting this statement in inverted comma:
"He needs to make them believe that he is not just offering false promises while waiting for his very FAT checque from ETOUDI" by USAfica.

L'vovo South Africa

Go on SDF if u guys need more assistance, always knock at my Door.This should be taken seriously. Enof is enof with this CPDM. Again i wonder where the lausy Ben Muna is he was also cheated am sure.

We are sick and tired of this 'diapered' dictator.Unlike Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe, Biya kills his people while leeking the ass's of the so called developed world leaders. Biya ur death i can picture it.In fact more of what hap'd to Sameul Doh.

See guys for those of u who are interested in having the full copy of Robert Mugabe's speech at the UN, u can send me ur emails via this medium or to my private email add. efokala@yahoo.com

L'vovo South Africa

Datz a very good qns. Ted pls tell us ur view becoz i have mine too.

simplice

L'vovo South Africa, please just paste the speech on the forum so everyone can read. Many thanks

Legima Doh

We all can now see how confused the SDF is.The Court in Banjul and the UN both have files of the Southern cameroons under the tutelage of the Scnc wherein, La republique is petitioned for brutal annexation and deprivation of the human rights of the people of the Southern cameroons.One of the manifestations of such is the usurpation of democracy which is what la republique has done.Going to Banjul and the UN will just go forth to buttress the case of the southern cameroons.Fru Ndi's case is just another supporting evidence for the Southern cameroons case.But it will be ridiculous for Fru Ndi to go to the Banjul court and the UN as a Southern Cameroonian and present a basic case of fraud and corruption against la republique instead of presenting them as evidence for the failed marriage and reason to pursue the most legitimate course for total liberation and freedom as enshrined in the ScNc file for restoration of the statehood and sovereignty of the country.Ni Fru's case is just a lame leg case in view to the real case already in place in the Banjul court and the UN.
Talking about the humdrum issue of grassroot support,the fact that people don't go out to militate does not mean that they are not in support of the Scnc.Infact they do and the Grand Chief Ayamba made mention of it.Some of us probably want to see grassroot support in the form of militias and gangsterism.
All said by the comrades are niminy piminy ie Dainty and Mincing.

Hail ScNc.

Peace UPon The Southern Cameroons.

Legima Doh,
scnc

Ted

Fon, Simplice and L'avovo South Africa,
My question was for Mr. Chairman and not for these undereducated commentators on this forum and Mr. chairman has understood the question is reconsidering his strategies. Do you guys know what discussions were going on during the hours of the clean up campaign down town here in Bamenda two days ago? If you happen to read comments here, do a lot of research before you make your own comments.

7512wilson

Simplice, thanks for the correction but then every thing about Biya is a mystery. Are you even sure he is 74 years old as portrayed?.
Biya is more than an enemy to me, he is a persecutor, an oppressor and a ruthless killer. I don't have to be a gentleman when attacking his deplorable character and leadership. Which is better, saying Biya is a homosexual or a Viagra addict?.

M Nje

What have you seen. Those blind supporters of Ni John Fru Ndi now know what we have been saying here. Your Chairman has carried all of you to a dead end. There is no way out. He and your leadership are lost, confused, and don`t know what to do.

It goes back to the basic fact that you cannot build a foundation on FALSEHOOD. The SDF message, especially to Southern Cameroonians, its last base, is a FALSEHOOD. It can only lead you to a dead end.

It is time most of you open you eyes and use REASON instead of EMOTIONS to evaluate issues. This is what you get when you blindly follow one individual who himself is confused.

tayong

Fon
I might not endorse the comments meant to deride Mr John Fru Ndi here but you must admit that your ilk are being forced to eat their words when they jubilantly condemn other pressure groups for seeking international court justice. Thats what happens when political amateurism and blind over zealousness replaces reason.Their words or actions turn to hunt them.

You were with me when we all advised the SDF to turn down the seats allocated to them by the CPDM and not go to parliament. You vowed to decamp to the CPDM if they didnt do that.Now you dont even question their raison d'être nor anymore. This is blind party loyalty and pandering Mr Fon

Im my view there may be little or nothing Mr Fru Ndi and his men can do to stop Paul Biya's manupulation of the system.I will say for the Nth time that electoral fraud doesnt necessary mean cheating on election day.Deliberate voter disenfranchising and selective registration is the highest level of corruption which ensues in Cameroon.

In my view concerning electoral disputes no legal avenue should be left unutilised.But how far will Mr Fru Ndi go with this when his men in the parliament are busy after money than fighting for electoral fair play.
FYI read the Swizterland times on the column on Africa.You'll read an article about Biya consulting a legal firm to seek advice on revamping the constitutional amendment that limits his term in office?


Question:
Should Biya amend the constitution to seek another term in office will Mr Fru be heading for the International Court? Just wondering aloud Mr Fon.
Tayong

7512wilson

Text of President Robert Mugabe's speech at 62nd Session of UN General Assembly


Statement by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zimbabwe, Comrade R. G. Mugabe, on the occasion of the 62nd Session of the United Nations General Assembly, New York, 26 September, 2007

Your Excellency, President of the 62ndSession of the United Nations General Assembly,
Mr. Srgjan Kerim,
Your Majesties,
Your Excellencies, Heads of State and Government,
Your Excellency the Secretary-General of the United Nations, Mr. Ban Ki-Moon,
Distinguished Delegates,
Ladies and Gentlemen.
Mr. President,
Allow me to congratulate you on your election to preside over this august assembly. We are confident that through your stewardship, issues on this 62nd Session agenda be dealt with in a balanced manner and to the satisfaction of all.
Let me also pay tribute to your predecessor, Madame Sheikha Haya Rashed Al Khalifa, who steered the work of the 61st Session in a very competent and impartial manner.
Her ability to identify the crucial issues facing the world today will be remembered as the hallmark of her presidency.
Mr. President,
We extend our hearty welcome to the new Secretary-General, Mr. Ban Ki-Moon, who has taken up this challenging job requiting dynamism in confronting the global challenges of the 21st Century. Balancing global interests and steering the United Nations in a direction that gives hope to the multitudes of the poor, the sick, the hungry and the marginalized, is indeed a mammoth task. We would like to assure him that Zimbabwe will continue to support an open, transparent and all-inclusive multilateral approach in dealing with these global challenges.
Mr. President,
Climate change is one of the most pressing global issues of our time. Its negative impact is greatest in developing countries, particularly those on the African continent. We believe that if the international community is going to seriously address the challenges of climate change, then we need to get our priorities right. In Zimbabwe, the effects of climate change have become more evident in the past decade as we have witnessed increased and recurrent droughts as well as occasional floods, leading to enormous humanitarian challenges.
Mr. President,
We are for a United Nations that recognises the equality of sovereign nations and peoples whether big or small. We are averse to a body in which the economically and militarily powerful behave like bullies, trampling on the rights of weak and smaller states as sadly happened in Iraq. In the light of these inauspicious developments, this Organisation must surely examine the essence of its authority and the extent of its power when challenged in this manner.
Such challenges to the authority of the UN and its Charter underpin our repeated call for the revitalisation of the United Nations General Assembly, itself the most representative organ of the UN. The General Assembly should be more active in all areas including those of peace and security. The encroachment of some U.N. organs upon the work of the General Assembly is of great concern to us. Thus any process of revitalizing or strengthening of the General Assembly should necessarily avoid eroding the principle of the accountability of all principal and subsidiary organs to the General Assembly.
Mr. President,
Once again we reiterate our position that the Security Council as presently constituted is not democratic. In its present configuration, the Council has shown that it is not in a position to protect the weaker states who find themselves at loggerheads with a marauding super-power. Most importantly, justice demands that any Security Council reform redresses the fact that Africa is the only continent without a permanent seat and veto power in the Security Council. Africa's demands are known and enunciated in the Ezulwini consensus.
Mr. President,
We further call for the U.N. system to refrain from interfering in matters that are clearly the domain of member states and are not a threat to international peace and security. Development at country level should continue to be country-led, and not subject to the whims of powerful donor states.
Mr President,
Zimbabwe won its independence on 18th April, 1980, after a protracted war against British colonial imperialism which denied us human rights and democracy. That colonial system which suppressed and oppressed us enjoyed the support of many countries of the West who were signatories to the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Even after 1945, it would appear that the Berlin Conference of 1884, through which Africa was parcelled to colonial European powers, remained stronger than the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It is therefore clear that for the West, vested economic interests, racial and ethnocentric considerations proved stronger than their adherence to principles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
The West still negates our sovereignties by way of control of our resources, in the process making us mere chattels in out own lands, mere minders of its trans-national interests. In my own country and other sister states in Southern Africa, the most visible form of this control has been over land despoiled from us at the onset of British colonialism.
That control largely persists, although it stands firmly challenged in Zimbabwe, thereby triggering the current stand-off between us and Britain, supported by her cousin states, most notably the United States and Australia. Mr Bush, Mr. Blair and now Mr Brown's sense of human rights precludes our people's right to their God-given resources, which in their view must be controlled by their kith and kin. I am termed dictator because I have rejected this supremacist view and frustrated the neo-colonialists.
Mr President,
Clearly the history of the struggle for out own national and people's rights is unknown to the president of the United States of America. He thinks the Declaration of Human Rights starts with his last term in office! He thinks she can introduce to us, who bore the brunt of fighting for the freedoms of our peoples, the virtues of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. What rank hypocrisy!
Mr President,
I lost eleven precious years of my life in the jail of a white man whose freedom and well- being I have assured from the first day of Zimbabwe's Independence. I lost a further fifteen years fighting white injustice in my country.
Ian Smith is responsible for the death of well over 50 000 of my people. I bear scars of his tyranny which Britain and America condoned. I meet his victims everyday. Yet he walks free. He farms free. He talks freely, associates freely under a black Government. We taught him democracy. We gave him back his humanity.
He would have faced a different fate here and in Europe if the 50 000 he killed were Europeans. Africa has not called for a Nuremberg trial against the white world which committed heinous crimes against its own humanity. It has not hunted perpetrators of this genocide, many of whom live to this day, nor has it got reparations from those who offended against it. Instead it is Africa which is in the dock, facing trial from the same world that persecuted it for centuries.
Let Mr. Bush read history correctly. Let him realise that both personally and in his representative capacity as the current President of the United States, he stands for this "civilisation" which occupied, which colonised, which incarcerated, which killed. He has much to atone for and very little to lecture us on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. His hands drip with innocent blood of many nationalities.
He still kills.
He kills in Iraq. He kills in Afghanistan. And this is supposed to be out master on human rights?
He imprisons.
He imprisons and tortures at Guantanamo. He imprisoned and tortured at Abu Ghraib. He has secret torture chambers in Europe. Yes, he imprisons even here in the United States, with his jails carrying more blacks than his universities can ever enroll. He even suspends the provisions of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights. Take Guantanamo for example; at that concentration camp international law does not apply. The national laws of the people there do not apply. Laws of the United States of America do not apply. Only Bush's law applies. Can the international community accept being lectured by this man on the provisions of the universal declaration of human rights? Definitely not!
Mr President, We are alarmed that under his leadership, basic rights of his own people and those of the rest of the world have summarily been rolled back. America is primarily responsible for rewriting core tenets of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. We seem all guilty for 9/11. Mr. Bush thinks he stands above all structures of governance, whether national or international.
At home, he apparently does not need the Congress. Abroad, he does not need the UN, international law and opinion. This forum did not sanction Blair and Bush's misadventures in Iraq. The two rode roughshod over the UN and international opinion. Almighty Bush is now corning back to the UN for a rescue package because his nose is bloodied! Yet he dares lecture us on tyranny. Indeed, he wants us to pray him! We say No to him and encourage him to get out of Iraq. Indeed he should mend his ways before he clambers up the pulpit to deliver pieties of democracy.
Mr President,
The British and the Americans have gone on a relentless campaign of destabilising and vilifying my country. They have sponsored surrogate forces to challenge lawful authority in my country. They seek regime change, placing themselves in the role of the Zimbabwean people in whose collective will democracy places the right to define and change regimes.
Let these sinister governments be told here and now that Zimbabwe will not allow a regime change authored by outsiders. We do not interfere with their own systems in America and Britain. Mr Bush and Mr Brown have no role to play in our national affairs. They are outsiders and mischievous outsiders and should therefore keep out! The colonial sun set a long time ago; in 1980in the case of Zimbabwe, and hence Zimbabwe will never be a colony again. Never!
We do not deserve sanctions. We are Zimbabweans and we know how to deal with our problems. We have done so in the past, well before Bush and Brown were known politically. We have our own regional and continental organizations and communities.
In that vein, I wish to express my country's gratitude to President Thabo Mbeki of South Africa who, on behalf of SADC, successfully facilitated the dialogue between the Ruling Party and the Opposition Parties, which yielded the agreement that has now resulted in the constitutional provisions being finally adopted. Consequently, we will be holding multiple democratic elections in March 2008. Indeed we have always had timeous general and presidential elections since our independence.
Mr. President,
In conclusion, let me stress once more that the strength of the United Nations lies in its universality and impartiality as it implements its mandate to promote peace and security, economic and social development, human rights and international law as outlined in the Charter. Zimbabwe stands ready to play its part in all efforts and programmes aimed at achieving these noble goals.
I thank you.

simplice

Wilson many thanks for the speech

simplice

"Fon, Simplice and L'avovo South Africa,
My question was for Mr. Chairman and not for these undereducated commentators on this forum and Mr. chairman has understood the question is reconsidering his strategies" by Ted
Ted, may I inquire after your definition of "uneducated" and those who club under the category on this forum?. Waiting.

Fon

Ted,
I you are even the least educated, you wouldn´t have used this sweeping statement, "and not for these undereducated commentators on this forum" What do you have to back your tomfool except of the fact that these commentators are against your murderous and callous CPDM regime?

There is no reason one can advance to support anybody who has decamped from the SDF to the CPDM; there are simply hungry politicians and not that the CPDM has suddenly become better than the SDF.

Tayong,
"You were with me when we all advised the SDF to turn down the seats allocated to them by the CPDM and not go to parliament. You vowed to decamp to the CPDM if they didnt do that.Now you dont even question their raison d'être nor anymore. This is blind party loyalty and pandering Mr Fon" (Tayong)
My friend, I don´t really know what you want to insinuate in the above statement. Do you really expect me to decamp to the CPDM because the SDF went to parliament against my wish? In politics, individual opionions will never surpass those of the majority. Prior to the debate on whether the SDF should go to parliament or not, I did my best to influence the out come in favor of not going to parliament. However, in the end the majority saw it differently; should I continue to fight the decision of the majority? Then that is nolonger democracy.
On the other hand, I will only critize the party in public when I am ready to send in my resignation letter. It is stupid to critize the party in public while still maitaining my membership. I am not like Professor Asonganyi who will organise a press conference to enervate the party while still struggling to maintain his membership.
What I tell the party hierarchy in private is always different from what I say in public about the party. In public, I will do everything the protect the image of the party while within party circles, I will hit hard against what I think is not correct.
To show you that I am not a blind party loyalist, I have forwarded to you one of my recent mail to the SG of our great party, the SDF.

"Should Biya amend the constitution to seek another term in office will Mr Fru be heading for the International Court?"

This is an issue that should preoccupy all sufferring Cameroonians under Biya´s dictatorship; it shouldn´t remain solely Fru Ndi´s personal problem.

felix

Wilson
Very much thanks for a copy of this speech.
Its seem as if the way to remove a tyrant is to be a tyrant your-self as Geroge Bush and Tony Blair proved.
In the case of Mugabe him self I don't know if he is playing both Games as a freedom fighter and a tyrant.
Once again this speech is inspiring and factual.

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Mr. Mugabe's speech is like a devil preaching the gospel of St. Luke. All the points he raised are valid, accurate and factual. But coming from his mouth, that's just plain hypocrisy. I mean outlandish hypocrisy. This old, grotesque tyrant has good ideas but he lacks the necessary expertise to execute his ideas. It is like when Biya said corruption is a crime against the Cameroonian people. Sorry Mr. Mugabe but you shall receive the same punishment the colonialists will receive. You have learned the tactics of the evil WEST and you shall pay the price, In this life or after it. You and the colonialists shall all pay a heavy price.

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Simplice you have come again,
Your views are as flexible as rubber. Today you say this, tomorrow you say another thing.Today, you stand behind this idea, tomorrow you switch to this one. You are like the dangling leaves of a tree that sways to whatever direction the winds take you. You are the chameleon that keeps changing its color. You try to camouflage to be on everybody's side.You change your views like underwear to seek applause. Due to your overly flexibility, your authenticity has been discarded.

alpha2omega

Anyone interested in the Mugabe speech in video format will find it here.

http://www.finalcall.com/media/news/UN_Mugabe09-26-2007.htm

Just copy and paste the link in your browser.
Its much more comprehensible or should i say digestible than reading the text format.

cheers

simplice

"Simplice you have come again,
Your views are as flexible as rubber. Today you say this, tomorrow you say another thing.Today, you stand behind this idea, tomorrow you switch to this one. You are like the dangling leaves of a tree that sways to whatever direction the winds take you. You are the chameleon that keeps changing its color. You try to camouflage to be on everybody's side.You change your views like underwear to seek applause. Due to your overly flexibility, your authenticity has been discarded." by USAfrica

May I inquire after what inspired such a qualification of me USAfrica?. Gentleman, I don't think the point is having an ideological stand point and using every means(void of logic and reason at times) to propound it. You onced asked for my stance and I made it stark clear I'm on this forum to learn and as a student, I buy any good opinion. Thanks for understanding.

Watesih

Fon,
Pay little attention to all the venerated scaremongers whose political capital is the irresistible desire to second-guess a single individual known as Fru Ndi.You see how they have quickly switched from the activities of the SCNC to Fru Ndi.They take southern Cameroonians for fools.If the course they pretend to pursue meant something to them,they would be recounting the attempts they made at storming police stations or prisons to free those who were arrested.Since they are champions at factional squabbles,they have pitifully do everything to even their love for the courts with Fru Ndi`s threats.There is a big difference here.Fru Ndi as a politician has the right to play mind games against his political adversaries, but a freedom movement will never bank on court cases to carve out a state for it.So those weak bones who are celebrating should be ashamed of themselves.It beats one`s imagination that people are estatic because some other person is about to swim in negativity like them.Taking any fight to courts even for a century will not solve any problem.What Southern Cameroonians should be hopeful about is that they even have Fru Ndi who singlehandedly has been tauting the dangerous Cpdm machine.There`s no doubt why internet freedom fighters cosy up to this man.They recognise in him the strength they lack.When he dares says he will go to court,they start fantasizing .To them they is now a companion in misery to rub shoulders with.But they will never have this privilege.The whole Southern Cameroons course is not surely waiting for the SDF to also go to court before it starts doing the right thing.The problem is lack of coordinated action,and the right people to take the fight to the end.If they want to take shortcuts by telling Southern Cameroonians that the problem is the SDF,then they are waisting time.The people of the Southern Cameroons only know of the work already done by the SDF.They have not yet seen what asylum seekers,internet scare
mongers,court watchers have done.Fru Ndi has weighed the threats he is making,and this is in anticipation of the constitutional amendments.This is the work of a politician.
But the SDF has no clear cut intention of distracting the people with court stories.
Those who are champions at this should continue waiting for the UN,and the courts.
1st October just went by,lets start the countdown for next year`s celebration day.

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

"I'm on this forum to learn and as a student, I buy any good opinion"- Simplice

After all these months on this forum Simplice the self-proclaimed student, I think its about time you graduate from school and take your stand.

Kumbaboy

UnitedStatesofAfrica,

Don't lecture us about Mugabe. Have you been to his country or your opinion has been shaped by ideologically-tinted reports in the Western media?

FACT: The trouble in Zimbabwe was caused by the UK promising at the Lancaster Talks in 1980 to compensate white farmers for their land and failing to do so. Thanks to the U.S. for injecting money at the start to fund the program. The UK's objections, based on allegations of misappropriation by members of the ruling party are "petty" and a betrayal. Sanctions against Zimbabwe have been ochestrated by the UK, leading to shortages and price hikes.

To understand Mugabe, you have to read the mindset of a freedom fighter. The foolish promise to compensate white farmers led to intense speculation on fertile lands - 99% owned by white farmers. How could the UK have made such a mistake? Mugabe is no great diplomat and his fiery speech at the UN mimicks his approach to land issues in Zimbabwe. He is frank and direct like a soldier. A soldier he really is in mindset and past practice! Two wrongs make no right.

KB

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Kumbaboy let's just cut through the lengthy monologues and go straight to the point. So are you insinuating that Mugabe should not be equally held accountable for the economic mess in Zimbabwe?

Kumbaboy

US of Africa,

The economic problems of Zimbabwe are the result of sanctions engineered by the UK in a disapproving response to Mugabe's key policy - forced land reforms. Freedom does not come on golden plates!

Of course Mugabe's policy triggered all the mess but the policy itself cannot be decoupled from the messy political history of that country. Zimbabweans seemingly continue to back their old master.

The UK would want us to forget her legacy in that country (Rhodesia) which is irrational because Mugabe is the product of colonial Britain! Just listen to Mugabe's astute and cultured expression - akin to Churchill in protecting British interests.

In Mugabe's judgment and that of native Zimbabweans, there is a price to pay to regain both political and economic sovereignty in their country. Once the UK stopped financing the purchasing of land from white farmers, it became clear that native Africans in that country would adopt a more nationalist posture by which mechanism they had successfully deposed the minority racist regime of Ian Smith. History has a way of repeating itself, not least when the same characters remain players.

To condemn Mugabe without looking at the background of the crisis is to be naive. We Africans too read history.

KB

Fon

Watesih,
I hope our SCNC activists here understand what you meant in the following:"It beats one`s imagination that people are estatic because some other person is about to swim in negativity like them." The statement is thick.

M Nje

Kumbaboy,
Your response about Mugabe could not be more direct. Mugabe remains an AFRICAN HERO. Before Nelson Mandela there was Mugabe. He lead a very strong resistence to gain Independence for his people.

If you Look at the Lancaster House Agreement, there were many attempts to try to deceive him but he stood his ground. The Land issue almost killed the talks which had lasted for about 3 months. But he stood firm that the issue of Land must be resolve before he could accept any cease-fire. That is why the British and the Americans promised to compenciate land owners.

You talk about the US injecting money, it was then President Jimmy Carter who personally took upon himself to interven and salvage the situation. The truth is that Mugabe is doing what any Patriotic African President should do. How can you explain that in a country of about 12 million people, white who make up less than 1% of the population owned more than 70 percent of the fertile Land. I am not in anyway preaching racist here neither I am suggesting that Mugabe is a perfect guy. He has made his own mistake and done some bad thinks. However, the truth is that many promises were made by the West at the Lancaster House Agreement that have not been kept. That is the principal root of the current crisis. The current economic crisis are principally the result of Economic Sanction that were aimed at forcing him out of Power.

Kumbaboy you talked about people being naive. We have people in this forum who will comment before thinking. It is interesting to see that you notice that also. Even on a subject that they have not made any research on, they will comment and show the worst level of naivety one can imagine. That is life. Freedom of Speech is accorded to everyone. But freedom of Speech comes with responsible.

At the end of the day, Mugabe remains a perfect case of how an African Leader should place the interest of his people ahead of any other foreign interest. Thank God some African can see the real story behind the “Mugabe Crisis” not the one portrayed on foreign media. Kumbaboy, you are one of those Africans.

Watesih

History teaches us that when you fight for your people ,you should be a yardstick of the type of morality you want them to embrace.It also teaches us that when you fight against oppression,you cannot be an oppressor yourself.This is why the Mandelas,Martin Luther King Jr stand tall above all humanity.When Mandelas liberated his people,he gave them hope to live.He did not engulf himself in bitterness.He did not ask for P. Botha`s head.But what we are seeing with Mugabe is that he is not only an inconsequential dictaor, but a madman.He has not shown the difference between a white supremacist,and a black one.He accuses Bush of invading another country.Bush will accuse him of invading other people`s farms,and not knowing what to do after,just as he Bush is at crossroads in Iraq.When Mandela took over in South Africa ,whites also had farms,and land,but his approach was not to open up the wounds of hatred again.Mugabe ejects white farmers from farms without any backup plan.
Today Zimbabweans are living one of the highest inflation rate in the world,and these are the same people we pretend support Mugabe.We are surely going to get up one of these days ,and say Cameroonians support Biya ,because he wins all elections.Mugabe wants to hide under the cap of a freedom fighter to stiffle all liberties in his country.Thats`s why he prefers to live in the past,telling the world how he stayed in the whiteman`s prison.The simple fact that this man counts on other dictators like Ghadaffi tells more about him.But he fails to know that even Ghadaffi finally recognised his folly,and opened up to the world.We cannot force Zimbabweans to forget the cruelsome legacy of British colonial rule,but time always comes for everything to move on.That is what happened in South Africa,and it needed the wisdom of people who were ready to forgive,and start afresh.
Rehatching the past in order to hang on to paper for the rest of his life is ridiculous
Few months ago,his Police almost beat the head of the frontline opposition leader to pulp.His desire to stifle political activities contrast sharply with the image of a freedom fighter he hangs on to.In Rwanda the the language of instruction ,business,Diplomacy is now English.In their bid to learn English,they did not drive out all French educators from their country. It has been a gradual approach. This is exactly the type of vision Mugabe lacks.The time when fiery speeches at the UN rostrum meant anything has passed.When we frown at sanctions imposed as a result of the activities of overzealous leaders like Mugabe,we should also frown when the same western powers pick up people like Charles Taylor.Mugabe has not even shown that he is not a colonial tool.His hatred for dissent shows he learnt a good lesson from his masters.

7512wilson

Hello people
I like the debate about Mugabe but let me switch your attention to the issue at hand. It is obviously true that SDF has lost its momentum and sparks. We all remember the early nineties when SDF had a commanding support and Cameroonians were eager for change.We also remember quite well that John Fru Ndi won the elections in 1992 but was put under house arrest as a result. We all equally remember how Bamenda and other regions hostile to the Biya government were flooded with military commandos waiting to crush any upheaval. My point here is that SDF has done every thing possible to bring freedom and change to Cameroon except for one thing, A CIVIL WAR. Cameroonians have given up the chase because their only hope of bringing meaningful change has been crushed. Thats right, SDF has been crushed and people have surrendered. With no hope in sight, many SDF militants and sympathizers have switch to the CPDM not for answers but for survival. Cameroon right now is about survival of the fittest.
In a democracy, when people rise against their government, the government listen to the people and in some cases we see government officials resigning due to pressure from within. On the other hand, in a dictatorship, when people rise against injustice in their government, the government uses its army to crush then and sanction them. A good example is the current situation in Myanmar in Asia. Despite all the goodwill and peaceful demonstrations by the people, the dictatorial government has succeeded in large part to crush down the revolts. The main Opposition leader has been put under house arrest after winning the last presidential election by a landslide margin. What is happening to Myanmar today is similar to what happened to Cameroon in the early nineties.
It is true that SDF might never be like in the nineties but how can we blame the SDF or John Fru Ndi that. It is obviously clear that Fru Ndi will do anything to not plunge Cameroon into a civil war. Some consider that a weakness but when i think of a civil war and how many regions in Africa have been ravaged by war, I start looking at other alternatives. I am not afraid of war but i am afraid of the consequences of a war.
Patience is a virtue, war is not the answer.
Freedom is Near.
God bless Cameroonians.

Kumbaboy

Watesih,

I read plenty of your postings, see your rationale in arguments but you need to reconsider your inferences about President Robert Mugabe. You always have to guard against ideologically-tinted reports in the western press.

First, the situation in South Africa is very unlike in Zimbabwe! In South Africa, the National Party gave up power as it became clear that the United States was set to recognize the ANC. With Colin Powell as Army Chief of Staff under George H. Bush, America was a different society as the late dictator Saddam Hussein learnt in Kuwait and the anti-Apartheid Movement found real teeth in the United States Congress. As I understand it, most of the land in South Africa was classified government reserves.

Secondly, in Zimbabwe, the British colonial legacy meant fertile lands were neatly parceled and English immigrants owned it as the “master” class over native Africans. That was untenable after independence – you cannot have independence while your people remain bondaged to servitude. That is why I believe the UK should have done more through the good offices of the Commonwealth to properly administer the Lancaster House cash-for-land plan to ensure an orderly redistribution of fertile lands. Instead, Whitehall chose its usual “hands-off” policy and reneged on the Lancaster House agreement. This is similar to the UK’s attitude towards UN resolution 1608 of 21 April 1961 after the late JF Foncha led pro-reunificationists won the 1961 UN plebiscite in Southern Cameroons. The ability of major world powers to renege on international agreements with impunity is a threat to world peace and security. As citizens of the world, it is our duty to point out these flaws in western policies and link them directly to current crises.

Ironically, the UK’s disgust about Mugabe is more about the consequences of his nationalist policies than about love for Zimbabweans. The confiscation of farms has triggered an emigration frenzy of Rhodesians (white Zimbabweans) back to their native country Britain. This costs Whitehall treasure in initial housing and social security payments. Loss of trade with Zimbabwe costs Britain a fortune in the banking, insurance, shipping and processing sectors (cheap raw materials lost).

Necessity is the mother of invention. It is clear that Zimbabweans need time to get over their present difficulties. Zimbabwe needs crude oil for its refinery and Libya is one of the few African countries with AUTONOMY over its oilfields. In most of Africa, including Nigeria, Cameroon, Congo, Gabon, Chad, Angola, etc., the oilfields are controlled by multinationals like British Petroleum, Elf, Shell, Exxon, Chevron, etc., all of whom are more loyal to their mother countries in the West than to the African countries they operate in. If these companies would not sell crude oil to Zimbabwe due to sanctions then Libya is the solution. Do not underestimate Robert Mugabe’s intelligence. Mugabe is also said to have intensified commercial links with China.

The incident involving Morgan Tsvangirai, Zimbabwe's main opposition leader in which he was beaten unconscious was bad, very bad for Zimbabwe. In normal times, over-zealous members of the police force will embarrass any government, including the United States and Britain. This is not exclusively a Zimbabwean phenomenon. To blame Mugabe for the incident, as the British Press immediately did was predictable and the result of pressure from Rhodesian returnees and sympathizers in that country. Mugabe is human like every world leader – they all make mistakes. Mugabe’s confrontational approach is the inevitable consequence of his experience in colonial Britain.

Watesih, correct me if I am wrong. I like debates but arguments must be pinned to verifiable facts.

KB

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Look, all these talk is pure bullshit.
Nobody has refused that the U.K and America are not the cause for the hardships in Zimbabwe today. That is a fact that is irrefutable. But to say that Robert Mugabe should not share the blame is nonsense. He had good ideas but his method of executing these ideas is very shameful.
This is a man who has been in power for for 27 years. His country continues to degenerate but why does he keep ruling? which good leader in a democratic country will rule for 27 years?
The people of Zimbabwe starving to death but what is he doing? shelves are empty is Zimbabwe, prices are soaring, tension is rising. What is he doing? he has the ideas but he lacks competency to execute.
Someone was comparing Zimbabwe to South Africa. If it was the same case, why hasn't Mugabe resigned like Mandela? Mandela resigned when his tenure ended but Mugabe keeps changing the constitution to benefit him. This is your African hero eh?
This is a man who has called himself Hitler, he has sent state police to kill, slaughter and butcher harmless civilians who are protesting for a more democratic government. Is this what you guys are calling an African hero? Do you guys how much prices of simple groceries have risen in Zimbabwe? people are starving, children and animals are dying. It is like a silent genocide but what is Mugabe doing? nothing. If he cannot solve the problem, he should step down and form a more democratic government that can solve the problem. Why won't he step down? PRIDE.

The problem with people like Kumbaboy, M Nje and majority of Africans is that, they will keep blaming the white man till we die. Yes! the white man is the cause of all our problems but you do think he is one who will fix it? NO. The white man will never waste his time to bother about our problems. Only us, Africans can fix our problems and nobody else. Instead of thinking about how we could end the silent genocide in Zimbabwe, we cross our legs and blame the British. Blaming the British will take us nowhere. We need to start solving our problems and stop yelling at the white man.

A serial killer murders your wife, he is caught and taken to jail. This serial killer will never come to you and teach you how to grief. You alone have to learn how to grief and move on with your life. It is the killer's fault that you are in grief but he will not be the one to teach you how grief and move on with your life.
Africans need to learn to move on and devise strategies to fix their continent. The damage has already been done and it is left to us to fix everything.Blaming the white man will take us nowhere.

Evidence of Mugabe's inhumanity can be found in the URL link below

http://www.sokwanele.com/blog/2005_10_01_blogarchive.html

Kumbaboy

Watesih wrote “In Rwanda, the language of instruction, business, and diplomacy is now English. In their bid to learn English, they did not drive out all French educators from their country. It has been a gradual approach. This is exactly the type of vision Mugabe lacks”.

This guy Watesih seemingly needs to understand that events are the manifestation of past political dynamics in every country. Countries seldom have the same political dynamics at a given time. Rwanda is not Zimbabwe. The Tutsi led government in Rwanda has had its woes and has made some wise decisions, including strategically abandoning French in its search for the best preparation of its children for the world of tomorrow. Rwanda has powerful English speaking neighbours and needs to integrate efficiently within the Southern African economic block led by South Africa, Kenya and Tanzania. There is no major economic power in the Francophonie outside France to partner with.

Having watched the BBC documentry “the bloody tricolours” – a mocking reference to France’s role in arming the ethnofascist Hutu led Rwandan regime prior to April 1994, despite the fact that the land-locked country faced no external threat. France’s negligence of duty inevitably allowed Hutu-led military and Interahamwe militia groups to massacre 800,000 Tutsis and Hutu moderates between April - July 1994. France as the sole UN peace keeper in the country then was aware of the genocide through its intelligence reports but failed to alert the UN Security Council. The disaster was brought to the attention of the World by English speaking television reporters.

France and Rwanda are currently at loggerheads over French allegations that Paul Kagame’s RDF forces shot down the plane which killed the ex-Hutu presidents of Rwanda and Burundi – incident which triggered the genocide. Other reports accuse the Ugandan army and disgruntled members of the Hutu regime. The jury is out on this.

Watesih, look before you leap into quick and inapplicable conclusions.

KB.

Kumbaboy

US of Africa,

Do not lose your mind. Zimbabwe is a country of 13 million people. If the shelves of shops in this country were truly "empty" as Western reporters claim, we should have had a famine of epic proportions. You are demonstrably a victim of uncritical consumption of Rhodesian propaganda.

I have on the record also faulted Mugabe for his fiery speeches which do not help matters and his militaristic approach to diplomatic questions. Two wrongs make no right. Unfortunately, none of us can smoothen the back of a tortoise. Mugabe remains the product of colonial Britain.

KB

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

"Mugabe remains the product of colonial Britain."- Kumbaboy
Yes! Mugabe is a product of colonial Britain but my problem is who fixes the problem now? is it the British or the Mugabe? if you think the British will waste their time to right their wrongs in Zimbabwe, you are living in illusions. Only us, the Africans, have to fix these colonial problems because the white people will never do so. So far, Mugabe has been doing a bad job. He is consumed with pride and does not want to beg other African countries for help.
Since you do not want to believe Western reports of starvation in Zimbabwe, let me give you a URL link to Radio South Africa's report against the inhumanity in Zimbabwe. Is it the British that told Mugabe to stop and kill demonstrators fighting for democracy?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aI1l7jmabBA

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Please let us not kid ourselves. The British did bad things in the past, we all know that. Let us now forget about the past and move ahead. The damage has already been done and the British will never fix this control. STOP LIVING IN THE PAST AND MOVE AHEAD. AS YOU BLAME THE BRITISH, MORE PEOPLE ARE DYING IN ZIMBABWE THANKS TO THE INHUMAN REGIME OF MUGABE. INSTEAD OF POINTING FINGERS,WE NEED TO FORGET THE PAST AND MOVE ON.
This is not an opportunity to prove your skills in African history. This is an opportunity for Africans to unite, kick the white man out and solve our own problems.

Kumbaboy

US of Africa,

I hope you are not making a contradictory argument by asking Africans in an unacceptably racist tone to "kick the whiteman out" and at the same time distancing yourself from the short-term negative consequences of such change. Britain finds herself in such contradiction today vis-a-vis the crisis in Zimbabwe.

Also Zimbabwe has not refused help from any African country, including our homeland Cameroon. South Africa continues to help Zimbabwe in this challenging period.

Zimbabwe is suffering under the yoke of sanctions engineered by Great Britain to challenge the negative impact of Mugabe’s nationalist policies. It is only fair to point out that extreme black nationalism in Zimbabwe is the direct and inescapable consequence of failure by Great Britain to fully honour the Lancaster House Agreement. Unlike Cameroon, Africans in Zimbabwe bravely fought a long and hard bush war to bring a racist government supported by the West to its knees. You can see why these same Africans refuse to accept independence on paper while their populations remain bondaged to servitude on white farms and dispossessed of their best ancestral lands.

Regarding your YouTube clip, which I have watched, the police force in every country is rightly sworn to maintain law and order in lightning, thunder, rain or shine. In Great Britain, some of the police officers will be on horse backs and the situation would be dangerous as happened during the 1983/84 Miners’ strike. Remember the tribulations of Arthur Scagill – leader of Mine Workers Union then. In the US, confronting the police is extremely dangerous because they all carry loaded weapons and readily shoot to kill. They can beat you senseless with or without reason and lie about it unless caught on camera. Police action is nevertheless a detail that should not impair anyone’s assessment of the bigger political dynamic. Lawlessness by anyone must be condemned.

KB

Watesih

Kumbaboy,
I don`t doubt your vehemence when it comes to debates on this forum,but what you are sidestepping in this debate is the spirit of forgiveness which Mugabe as a freedom fighter has not shown up to now.If you want to reside only on historical correlates,then you will miss out what Mugabe would have done to redress what history put asunder.Our references to Rwanda,and South Africa doesn`t mean we don`t know the political situations in each country are different.What we are basically saying is that they picked up the pieces ,and started making a better situation out of them.Despite the fact that the French did these nasty things in Rwanda,they are still very present there.Most of the aparthied gurus are still alive,but the ANC taught them the language of forgiveness.Mugabe has created a comfort zone for himself as a freedom fighter to wreak havoc on his people.We don`t go against nationalism in Zimbabwe,but a nationalist is somebody who would not spill the blood of his people.This is exactly where Mugabe falls short.When Mandela`s wife tried to play this type of a role,he came out firm,and distanced himself from her.Talking about sanctions imposed by western countries as a means to justify the errings of a murderous dictator is ridiculous.When he himself uses his Police to disgrace his people, i don`t think when they die under the yoke of western sanctions will mean anything to him.The question any right thinking person will ask is,having driven out the colonialists,seized back the fertile lands from them,what is Mugabe doing with these lands? Having fought,and got freedom how different is Mugabe from Ide Amin,Charles Taylor,and many others? You are now trying to justify the fact that it is good for Police to beat people when this people taunt them,the question is why this omnipresence of the police? AS long as there is a Mandela ,we will continue to compare people like Mugabe to him,because they are all freedom fighters.Rwanda did not embrace English because English speaking reporters reported the carnage to the world, but because it is surrounded by many English speaking countries that could help it have better economic perspective.Secondly ,the base of the Rwandan patriotic Front was in Uganda,and we still vividly remember Paul Kagame`s picture in Jeune Afrique Economie with one part of his pair of glasses decorated with the American flag.This shows us that they want to embrace Anglophone culture to better themselves,unlike Mugabe who relishes in his role of having stayed in prison,but is doing nothing to help his people.Only a fool will keep courting disaster for his people!

Kumbaboy

Watesih,

Let us assume for a moment that you were the Head of State of Zimbabwe – President Watesih.

When Great Britain pulled out of her commitment to finance the equitable transfer of fertile lands from British settlers to native Africans (preferably known as blacks – colonial euphemism for the underclass), what would you have done:-

(a) Assume indifference and ignore your citizens.
(b) Go to the UN knowing fully well the issue will be vetoed.
(c) Engage in measured direct action to reverse injustices, learning from your experience in unseating a racist government.
(d) Do nothing.

Speak Watesih!

Adopting (a) or (c) means your people including bush war veterans will hang you as a coward and traitor. (b) means wasting time for nothing. In fact (a), (c) and (d) means your people remain economically bondaged to colonial farms despite independence. The options available to President Mugabe are limited. I fault his critics for proposing no dignified solutions to the land stalemate.

KB

Kumbaboy

Error,

Read (c) in all instances as (b) above.

KB

rexon

Tayong,

Fon says a majority of SDFers want thei chairman and his gang to go to Camerounese parliament. Funny indeed. I dont know where he got his statistics from. Anyway, it is just like Mr Biya claims he has won a landslide in the last election, thus a majority of Cameroonians are in love with his government. SDF=CPDM in all respect.

Cheers.

Watesih

Kumbaboy,
You cannot have your cake and eat it in a debate where you present the thesis, throw off the antithesis,and synthesize, while at the same time posing a question. Every right thinking person will take your (C) above,because you intelligently use the words 'Measured direct action'.Under other heavens we have seen this type of action.In South Africa it was called The Truth and Reconciliation Commission.The nationalism,
fidelity that party members show is directly linked to their leader`s definition of peace,and other dynamics.Leaders use these nationalistic feelings to keep their followers away form important political issues of the day.Nationalistic feelings in themselves are not bad,but negative nationalism is dangerous.The Chinese can whip up nationalistic feelings against the japanese ,because they are self reliant,but Mugabe crafted the doom of his people through unpopular policies,and today keeps killing some.His hands are smeared by the blood of his countrymen,and this shows he is not different from the colonialists he now pretends to hate.There`s nothing like not proposing solutions to the land stalemate.
Mugabe has the yam,and the knife.He was supposed to have put a commission in place with powerful representation from his party base,to come up with modalities on how the colonialists will be made to give up a greater chunk of their lands for some juicy remuneration.The West wouldn`t have lost face in this deal,so everybody would have come out happy.If Zimbabwe is said to be straightjacketed because of economic sanctions,it means the country can`t survive without Western aid,so why pick a fight with somebody you can`t beat? After taking over the fertile lands now for so many years,what are the fallouts? He now wants to conceal his inability by hanging on to fading nationalism.Mugabe is a disgrace.When Britain ,and the others gave money,he kept the colonialists on fertile lands,but when they suspended payment,he seized their lands.Now the mechanised agriculture that was the backbone of the economy is lacking.
Being a nationalist does not necessarily mean having followers,but knowing what to do for them.Now Mugabe doesn`t know what to do for his people,because he pushed them into a tight corner.

Kumbaboy

Your Excellency Watesih,

I defend your right to dodge my question and keep blowing hot air packed with anecdotes but having no convincing substance. Verily, I can tell you young man, the road to heaven is paved with thorns. There is no easy way to develop. Real development means the empowerment of a dispossessed and underdeveloped people is not pain free.

You may not understand that sanctions engineered against Zimbabwe have denied almost all farms the investment in financial capital, machinery and fertilizer. The old farm equipment is mainly UK made goods and there are no spare parts. Still, the hard working people there are able to feed 13 million mouths. However, a few naive Africans buy the sick Rhodesian propaganda that hell has broken loose there, in their vindictive quest to make Mugabe a nemesis.

You talk of China with seeming ignorance. Do you know the depth of Chinese sacrifices in the past? Ever read about the 1000 mile march by the revolutionists? Ever head of the cultural revolution in which millions of Chinese peasants perished in a famine as Mao Tse Tung moved the country to be self-reliant, industrially capable and independent?

What you see in developed countries today is not the result of accidental good luck. It is the outcome of past sacrifices, self-dependence and hard work. You may also want to read about the American Revolution. When the English were expelled from the land, they came back with vengeance and burnt down Washington DC! America soon had severe domestic problems that triggered a civil war as some southern States attempted to secede. Today, she is the only Superpower. God bless Americans.

Watesih, be a grown up African. No use throwing stones at Robert Mugabe. In a fight, don’t slap your opponent when he/she is down. Mugabe is right to take away some farms from whites and redistribute them amongst native Africans. This policy has triggered vengeance from his enemies who historically have been unfair to the native African. His critics, their sick machinations, innuendo and propaganda can go to hell. Mugabe is not moving until nature calls. Mugabe steely determination is an accurate mirror image of European leaders. The latter take no nonsense and should learn to accept the same from a strong African leader. African states need to rally and start helping the people of Zimbabwe. No excuses.

KB

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Kumbaboy,
how long has you African hero been in power? does any right-minded president of any democratic constitution stay in power for more than 27 years? eh? He is a power-hungry dictator whether you like it or not.
You keep obfuscating this argument by flip-flopping facts t o suit your half-stated thesis.
Nobody said when Mugabe seized lands from the white settlers to gave to the Black settlers, he was doing a bad thing. No one is either praising the British and the West for the catastrophe they caused in Zimbabwe.

What we were saying is, your attempt to play the blame game is flawed. Mandela came to South Africa amid a ton of problems but he didn't he still curb a lot of these problems?

Mugabe is a dictator regardless of what the British did. Your African history textbooks should not make you blind to the facts. If Mugabe gave these lands to the black masses, why are they living in abject poverty? the truth is that he gave these lands to himself and other rich members of people and once again frustrated the masses like the British

It is right for Mugabe to speak out against the British. It is right for him to revolt against the West. But do you wake up one morning and cut off the hands that feeds you without finding an alternative source of food? This is what Mugabe did. He is an impulsive tyrant who blasted the people that fed him without having another strategy first.

Politics is strategy and planning. He must have a clear strategy before you take action. of course, I don't expect Mugabe to know this because is a cruel, mindless and conscienceless dictator. No amount of writings on a piece of paper can deter me from looking at the true facts.

Watesih
Watesih

Kumbaboy,
It`s incredible to see how those one would consider mature to animate a debate without animosity will quickly sway to breaking point when they run out of ideas.I`m surprised you suddenly started marshalling catch phrases.Yeah,Mugabe`s critics are going to go to hell,just as those of Paul Biya will do.It is a fitting end,the verdict is out.Only death can take away people like Mugabe.We are therefore surprised to see you highlight the plight of Zimbabweans,despite the fact that they have a God-sent leader who can only be separated from them by death.You defend my right of dodging your question.You seem to be suffering from that know all syndrome.You asked a question,gave three options,and i chose one,and analysed it.Here you are talking about dodging your question,just as you seem to be the only one who has read History.We did not give the example of China when it comes to Nationalism ,because we don`t know Chinese History.We said the Chinese can afford to whip up nationalistic feelings against the japanese because they are self-reliant,but Mugabe cannot keep counting on fading nationalism while his people are suffocating under the weight of poverty.You have not yet told us why Mugabe allowed the colonialists to keep enjoying fertile lands,until the British cut off funding.That type of dogmatic mind,telling the world that Mugabe cannot move until nature calls is the same type of dogmatic mind that pushed Mugabe to seize farms without a back up plan.Seizing lands and giving to Africans is not a bad thing,but he should at least set up a framework to deal with this in order not to plunge the people he pretends to love into crises.He didn`t,
and now his people are dying of hunger under his very eyes,and he himself is a pariah in the World.Empowerment of a dispossessed ,and underdevelopped people means giving them the means to feign for themselves.But this is a man who has strangled his people economically,and politically.His fight as a freedom fighter was to take over ,and enslave his own people.

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Well said Watesih
did Mugabe become a freedom fighter to enslave his people? did he become a freedom fighter to butcher his people who were protesting for a more democratic constitution? when he seized the lands from the white settlers, did he give them to the masses? No! He gave these lands to himself and to other rich members of government. He embezzled all the profits and left the suffering masses without anything.
The West are responsible for a lot of Zimbabwe's problems but to say that Mugabe should not share the blame is racist, biased, shortsighted, foolish and naive.

Fon

Kumba Boy,
You are completely offtrack; Mugabe is one of African´s current worst dictators. The abjective callous is not enough to describe this monster and tyrant.
He is responsible for sufferring Zimbabweans.

Kumbaboy

US of Africa and Watesih,

You both are the complaining types which I can understand.

You both talk about strategy but have no strategy, advocate no strategy, manifest racism, poor vision and inadequate introspection.

US of Africa irrationally calls for a routing of the "whiteman" but hypocritically distances himself from the consequences. Immaturity sets in.

Watesih asked why Mugabe did not confiscate farms while Britain was funding the cash-for-land program potraying confused thinking. Watesih, would such action not have been in bad faith? Do you know what you are talking about?

Fon, you are the one off-tract and completely won over by ideologically tinted press reports about Zimbabwe.

Mugabe is nevertheless a tough guy - he is a war veteran and arguably the only war veteran president on the continent. The people of Zimbabwe elected him and he has called for new elections in March 2008. Perhaps, Watesih can offer a strategy to the Leader of the Opposition!

KB

Kumbaboy

Watesih asks" But do you wake up one morning and cut off the hands that feed you without finding an alternative source of food? This is what Mugabe did. He is an impulsive tyrant who blasted the people that fed him without having another strategy first".

Therein lies the trouble with half-baked Africans. All their considerations have one denominator. FOOD. Watesih, this type of thinking is decadent. No noble cause terminates on FOOD. Do astranauts go into space because there is FOOD there? Wake up from limbo.

KB

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

The comment was made by me Kumbaboy and not Watesih. Check your facts properly next time. That is something you haven't been doing through out this argument.
Yes Kumbaboy, I called for the routing of the white man. That's very true. But you are gravely mistaken when you say I distance myself from the consequences.I didn't. If you scroll up and read my comments, you will see that I called for strategy. You kick out the white man when you have devised a better strategy that will enable you to survive without the white man's influence. You don't just kick out the white man when you don't have a survival strategy.
You also went on a tirade against the comment I made regarding FOOD. You went on insulting Africans about their love for food. Mr. Kumbaboy, do you know what an allegory is? you have taken that statement out of context and now you are making yourself look foolish. scroll up and read the context in which that statement was made and you will realize that it was an allegory. I WAS COMPARING ONE SITUATION TO ANOTHER DUE TO THEIR SIMILARITIES.
Kumbaboy you haven't answered the questions I posed.One of them was when Mugabe seized those lands from the white settlers, did he fairly distribute to the poor black masses? we all know the answer to that question. You dogged the question and went on flip-flopping facts to suit your flawed statements. The old tyrant took all the lands for himself, gave some to other members of his government and left the poor black masses frustrated. The black masses in Zimbabwe are living in abject poverty while Mugabe the tyrant is enjoying all the profits of the lands. Is that the definition of an African hero Mr. Kumbaboy? is he any different from the British he is criticizing? is he any different? please Kumbaboy, stop drowning in a sea of stupidity
Kumbaboy, if you are infatuated about Mugabe and policies, why don't you go and settle in Zimbabwe. Go to Zimbabwe, settle there and I will see if you will still open your mouth and call Mugabe and African hero.

Watesih

Kumbaboy,
You are offtrack as Fon said.Hold yourself together.The last quote above was not made by Watesih,but USAfrica.Nobody is talking about food here.We are talking about an inconsequential psycopath enslaving his people,after having pretended all along that he was a freedom fighter.The word food is used figuratively,and USAfrica is saying without finding an alternative don`t block off the live valve.You could not naturally understand why i asked why Mugabe could not seize the lands when Britain was still funding.I wanted you to know that it is this British money that stabilised his country,
and that pretending today to be fighting the West is a farce,because every indication points to the fact that without their mechanised farming,he has completely run out of ideas.We will continue saying it,even if it makes you more confused,that Mugabe would have set up a commission with a broad base representation,especially from his party base,and ask them to come up with modalities that will see the colonialists give up a good chunk of their fertile lands to the rightful owners for some encouraging remuneration.These are the solutions we have been proposing all along,which you seem blind to see.The ANC did this why would his party not do this? A freedom fighter fights to get his people out of hell,and will jealously safeguard their integrity.But this is the worst tyrant the world knows today,famishing his people,and throwing some in prison.Being African does not imply you make catcalls about the whiteman,when you yourself butcher your own people.Mugabe cannever be forgiven for this!

Kumbaboy

Watesih writes “Mugabe would have set up a commission with a broad base representation, especially from his party base, and ask them to come up with modalities that will see the colonialists give up a good chunk of their fertile lands to the rightful owners for some encouraging remuneration”.

Watesih, you can at least reason that if such approaches worked in Zimbabwe there would never have been a “bush war” in the seventies despite the good offices of the United Nations, the former OAU and the British Commonwealth.

You underestimate the conservative attitude of Rhodesians (white British settlers) at your own peril. These people in 1965 defied the World, temporarily cut off links with Britain and unilaterally declared independence to create a racist republic. They do not negotiate with anyone to give up land.

Talking of ‘encouraging’ remuneration without saying how much and who pays for it is being wheezy. Zimbabwe is going through a tough transition and needs support from all of Africa and beyond. This I admit is very challenging to comprehend, particularly in countries where principles are readily traded for FOOD and the kids have been infected. That is the expedient politics of the stomach.

KB

Watesih

Kumbaboy,
Aparthied was much more awful than the conservative attitude of Rhodesians,
but there was still a way to go round it.If Mugabe thought it was a good thing to seize the lands,that was great,but we are talking about the aftermath of the seizure.What did he do with this lands? This is where a commission would have come in to put everybody on an equal footing,thereby soothing tempers.You cannot start appositioning sums of money to a commission that does not exist,would you? Of course it was a good thing that he countered this despotism of the colonialists,but where is he today? Zimbabwe is not going through any transition.Zimbabwe is on a downward spiral, due to the madness of a black supremacist.
When Mugabe does not tolerate dissent,reigns over one of the highest inflation rates in the world,which transition are you talking about? When you finish being estatic about Mugabe,don`t forget to shower you panaegyrics on the other wolf that is lurking in your own jungle.After all you just taught the world that we have to be blind to what despots do because we pretend to be nationalists,or victims of some perceived slight from the whites,something we ourselves can`t practise.As long as Mandela liberated his people,and did not beat any of them to death,as long as Martin Luther liberated his people,and did not spill the blood of any one of them,the world is ready to keep telling the truth about Mugabe.That he fought for power to butcher his people.No amount of communication gymnastics is going to change this fact.

rexon

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Kumbaboy

Watesih writes “Apartheid was much more awful than the conservative attitude of Rhodesians, but there was still a way to go round it. If Mugabe thought it was a good thing to seize the lands that was great but we are talking about the aftermath of the seizure. What did he do with these lands?”

Your attitude reminds me of the hungry and innocent kid on a farm who blames his hunger on the parents because they planted the seeds he should have eaten. To answer your question, one must assess when the land seizure program started, when sanctions were applied against the country and how sanctions have affected the economy. These events happened in the last decade. All sanctions weaken with time, which is why Zimbabwe is going through a hard transition.

Don’t get me wrong. Robert Mugabe like most world leaders is no angel. It is fair to criticize him for policies like sending Zimbabwean troops to DR Congo where he wasted foreign exchange and killed, sending his North Korean trained brigade into Matabeleland where they crushed Joshua Nkomo’s people and Shona domination of Zimbabwean political appointments. The Shona – Mugabe’s ethnic group makes up over 75% of the population. Within this ethnic group lies the caucus of Mugabe’s core support. Now, you can see why he has easily won all past elections despite reported irregularities and his party is set to win again in March 2008!

To undersand "conservatism" or dare I say the tribalism/favoritism, watch what will happen in the UK at the next General Election. Expect the majority ethnic group (the Great English tribe) to desert PM Gordon Brown (a minority Scotsman) for one of their own – Englishman Mr. Cameron (like Tony Blair, John Major, Maggie Thatcher, etc.) and give some other vain reasons. Tribalism is not a monopoly of Africans. May God bless mankind.

KB

Watesih

Kumbaboy,
This debate has become stale ,and boring ,because you have all along been playing some cut ,and patch.You jump from us crying food,to Mugabe`s popularity which always secures him elections,to tribalism.God alone knows where you find yourself now.Sir,don`t smear yourself with filth by making such falacious claims that Mugabe has been winning elections because he is popular among his ethnic group.What is therefore the need trying to beat Morgan Tsangiria`s head to jelly with all this popularity.Paul Biya`s ethnic group controls everything in Cameroon,thats why he is very popular,and has also been winning elections in a very transparent way.Petit wits!Mugabe is no angel ,and its great you want to impose selective memory on what people have to criticise about him.But since we are not dogmatic,we criticise his relationship with his people,which is that of a butcher,and an overzealous black supremacist.You answer my question about what Mugabe did with the seized land by talking about the fact that all these events took part in the last decade.That is ridiculous ,and groping in darkness.The question again: What did Mugabe do with the lands he seized? If you can answer this,then the debate continues,if not
share some British beef with Vally of England,and be merry.

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Thank you Watesih, you took the words out of my mouth.
Even if Mugabe remains in power because of his tribe, isn't that still corruption? isn't it corrupt to use your ethnic background to secure power?
Kumbaboy is once again flip-flopping facts. He has gone from food, to Mugabe's war tactics, to his popularity, to British politics, even Gordon Brown and he keeps switching.
Kumbaboy, we are not asking you for a history lesson. We are asking you to answer the questions we posed. If he is an African hero, why is he butchering his own people? what did he do with the lands he seized from the British? did he FAIRLY distribute it amongst the poor black masses? Note that word FAIRLY. Or did he keep them for himself and other members of cabinet?
You go and scram portions of archaic history textbooks and you come here and obfuscate this argument. Answer the question and stop copying and pasting portions of textbooks on this forum

Kumbaboy

Watesih and US of Africa,

The answer to your monologue is that it takes time to consummate changes. Zimbabweans need time to make use of their increasing access to fertile farms, most of which has been distributed in the last 2 to 6 years. Transforming economic empowerment into wiggets takes time - it is not like opening a can of coke and savouring the flavour instantly.

Sanctions against the country deny it access to oversea capital, capital equipment and foreign exchange. Sanctions slow down the consummation of recent changes. There are 13 million people in that country still being fed by the products of the soil.

It is rich but not surprising for Watesih who prides in eating British beef to want to eat his beef and have it back, right now. Beware of BSE! The last African who took pride in the media for eating beef was the infamous Idi Amin. I ask Watesih and US of Africa to finish their courses in England in record time and go home (Cameroon) with 1st class degrees. Good luck to ya.
KB

simplice

Dear friends,
The debate is quite interesting. Yet more, I have some clearifications to make. The two clubs(Pro-Mugabe and Anti-Mugabe), have one common denominator:
-Subjective Colonialism and Sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe in the wake of Mugabe's controversial land reform policy are the capital causes of the present socio-economic predicament in the country.
-However, what USAfrica, Watesih, Fon and co want KumbaBoy to grasp is that:Mugabe is liable to some digree for the present crisis ,due to some inconsistent nationalistic policies. What we simply want Kumba Boy to admit is that, Mugabe has in some respect flawed in his nationalistic hostile propaganda. Should Kumba Boy admit this, then the there'll be no futher cause for this debate as it's sythesis must have been reached.
Once more I thank you all for your strong sense of "know-how" in the light of fact-based and mature comments which hitherto have pontuated this "Mugabe Agenda" (ever since Wilson first mentioned it).
What I find abit surprising is that, the "Rexonists"(advocates of Rexonism) haven't be able to parallel it to the SCNC struggle. Could Rexon, Paa Ngembus, Ma Mary, Mr Nje, Mk the Southerner et al, tell us what their opinion of Mugabe is, in the light of Zibabwean crisis ?.
The student.

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Well, well, well, well, look what the cat dragged in. The flexible Simplice is here once more, flexing his views and playing the role of mediator. Surprise, surprise.

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Kumbaboy,
your mouth has become too heavy to admit that Mugabe equally shares the blame in Zimbabwe's economic mess because of your black supremacist tendencies. Note, black supremacy is just as bad as white supremacy. White supremacists like the KKK refuse to see any fault in their race and divert all their hatred on other races like the black race. You are doing the same thing here but then you criticized the British for treating blacks during the colonial era like second class citizens. In other words, you criticize British white supremacy tendencies but you nurture your own. What outright HYPOCRISY

simplice

"Well, well, well, well, look what the cat dragged in. The flexible Simplice is here once more, flexing his views and playing the role of mediator. Surprise, surprise" by USAfrica.

Mr USAfrica, with due respect, I never like to contribute much in any debate because,I don't know quite little. I simply, observe, analyse, then try to find the "common denominator". Wether your qualification of me as a "Cat" be deserved or not, I firmly believe that; in a debate,there's neither a winner, nor a looser. Protagonists of this debate have demonstrated some sense of "fact-based" arguemental "know-how" and that's all I'm proud of.
The student.

Kumbaboy

US of Africa,

You have on the record asked for the "whiteman to be kicked out" of (I guess) black Africa. With such a racist under-pinning, I can see where you are coming from.

You are also a wimp by attempting to distance yourself from the backlash of such an undertaking. That kind of extremism is the still-birth of half-baked Africans.

KB seeks universal justice without recourse to race or skin colour.

KB

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Kumbaboy,
can you please go back an read the context in which I made the statement "whiteman to be kicked out". I made it when I was talking about Africans drawing up strategies for progress.I was referring to kicking the white man out of our strategy-making. I am not surprised that you take things out of context, that is what you have been doing through out this argument.
You indirectly selected some of Mugabe's flaws in one of your previous write-ups yet your mouth is too heavy to admit that he has contributed to Zimbabwe's problem. Is that Universal justice? I don't think so.

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

And as for Simplice, you keep calling yourself "The student". Well, I hope you graduate from school pretty soon and take a firm stand. This flip-flopping of yours does scratches away your authenticity.

rexon

Heading for the African Court in Banjul!

Some people are smart, successful and gifted; these
can get to any station in life, in any capacity.
Others are driven by their ego, by egomaniacal
impulses; such are dangerous for any station where the
daily life of many depends on their will. One may put
up with an excellent doctor that is good at treating
exotic ailments, without wishing to see the doctor at
the helm of a large hospital. Better for the
specialist to stay in his specialty and allow steadier
hands to manage the large hospital.

Specialist doctor and political leader; big hospital
and the entire country! All end up with the demand for
high personal standards of intentions, values,
thought, vision, sensibilities and behaviour. You can
put up with the bully, the violent, the trickster, the
arrogant, the all knowing: they lead you to localised
victories once in a while. They provide you with self
satisfaction from time to time. But at the end of the
day, the loners escape from what others have described
as the central critical arena to the safety of their
private abodes to continue to indulge in their trade
of selling illusions. The generalised satisfaction
that was supposed to be the result of the advent of
change, the generalised satisfaction sought with the
villes mortes, the union for change and the heroics of
yesteryears can continue to wait.

Working for small, private victories while dreaming of
big ones has turned these ego maniacs to dodging and
dogging, with ready cheerleaders that rush every
utterance to front pages of their advertising gadgets!
This time around, the news is about… the African
Court, since we are told that "I am putting the
package together for the African Court in The Gambia
and the UN before we swing into action..." An after
thought following 30 September, as if the man was
expecting the electoral system to change on its own!
Pity that they continue to ignore Willy Brandt’s
wisdoms that "nothing happens on its own, and very
little will last..."!

The constitution of Cameroon affirms our attachment to
the fundamental freedoms enshrined in the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights, the Charter of the United
Nations and the African Charter on Human and Peoples’
Rights. Following the adoption of the African Charter
on Human and Peoples' Rights, the African Court on
Human and Peoples' Rights (ACHPR) is in the process of
being set up, after the protocol to establish it
entered into force on January 1, 2004. Until the court
comes fully into force, the protection of rights
listed in the African Charter rests with the African
Commission on Human and Peoples' Rights which is based
in Banjul, the Gambia. Unfortunately, its decisions
have no binding powers. Therefore if one were to go to
the commission with a complaint about elections in
Cameroon, the best one expects is the expression of
opinions like those of NDI, the Commonwealth, IFES…
that presently fill the electoral cupboard of
Cameroon.

The decision to head for Banjul therefore resembles
the scene in War and Peace where the Russian army,
heady from the presence of its Tsar and emboldened by
a peace talk request from Napoleon, relishes its next
clash with the enemy. Much of the drama is in the
soldiers’ drinking, sentimentality and arrant
temerity. "Nine tenth of the men of the Russian army",
Tolstoy wrote, "were at that moment in love with their
Tsar and the glory of the Russian arms" Among the one
tenth subdued was the army’s commander-in- chief.
Finally when an old adjutant gets around to asking the
old soldier his take on the imminent encounter, the
commander pauses, as if to reflect, then answers, "I
think the battle will be lost"

Our own setting has the "tsar" and
"commander–in-chief" as one and the same person, and
he is among the nine tenth assured of victory!
Additionally, the "tsar" has become the spokesman and
advocate of the battle! Some "soldiers" say their love
for the "tsar" is because he is also
"commander-in- chief", so the love is based on fear,
not affection; the fighting spirit of the "army" is
ebbing because of the tsar-cum-commander- in-chief’s
love for political fiat, his favouritism, his appetite
for money and lack of selfless leadership. So what?
So, like the silent minority, I think the battle of
Banjul will be lost! Once it is lost, only another
subterfuge will be dreamt up, not the so-called
"action"! Heading for Banjul in the first place, is a
subterfuge to dodge "action", since "action" needs a
fraternity of advocates of change, long term planning,
meticulous preparation, and leadership that believes
in genuine change of regime, not change of actors of
the regime!

So why head for Banjul? Maybe to prove the claim of 73
seats and so ask the African Court to order their
restitution? Mais où sont les preuves? To show the
Cameroon electoral law so the court can declare them
below the bench marks? Which bench marks? To say the
electoral disputes were not well handled? But some
constituencies were cancelled and there is written
evidence that they said they were happy with the
decisions of the court! To ask the court to order a
rerun of the rerun? But they just won some seats in
the rerun, or are they not going to take up the seats?
Are they going to ask that the court orders the
immediate institution of ELECAM? But they were there
when the Assembly was giving the time frame for the
putting in place of the NEO-bis! So what is the noise
on the African Court all about? Just another avenue to
waste the millions they get through their daily
contacts; through their presence in the instances that
hold us hostage!

Much clairvoyance usually comes in retrospect. But
there are issues that one should be clairvoyant about
right from the start! Although it is not good to drive
through life looking at the rear-view mirror, the
rear-view mirror is there all the same! Those claiming
to be preparing cases for the African Court are the
same persons the judges spent time here ridiculing for
lack of mastery of the law. Banjul will be much fun,
if they get there at all!

T. Asonganyi
Yaounde.

Julio

Mugabe has not realized that a nation standing on it's own can't survive. Libya tried it and has come back, North Korea has realized that too and is coming back to the international community. Nations need partners for their progress. Good leadership should improve lives and bring development. If that is not archieved, then some thing is wrong.

simplice

Julio, that was a brilliant comment

simplice

USAfrica, many thanks for your exhortation and sound advice.

M Nje

Julio,
How does your analogy of North Korea and Libya fit in this case of Mr Mugabe?

Sometimes it is good to look at the facts of a case before we make conclusion. Don`t be fooled by western media.

Here is a better analogy for you. If you were a President of a country of 12 million people and 7o% of the fertile land in your country was owned by about 1 % of the people who are basically foreigners. At the moment of your independence, the government of those foreigners agreed to pay for a land distribution from those forigners to your citizen but latter failed in that promise. What will you do as a President?

That same question apply to Prime Minister Brown. Imagine Britain was a country of 12 million people as Zimbabwe and about 500,000 foreigners (mostly African) owned 70% of the land in Britian. At the time of Independence of Britain, the government of those foreigners agreed to pay for a redistribution of that land to British citizen but later fail to make such payment. What will he Mr. Brown do? That is the question and a better analogy to use.

It is worthnoting here that many of us can atleast count on a piece of family land in our village. That land most often is aboundant and we can use it to open a farm, construct a home or do just what ever we desire. For most people in Zimbabwe, land ownership is a dream. Many of them are landless in their own country while about 1% of the people who are basically foreigners owned 70% of the fertile land. Before we rush into conclusions, we need to look at what they have gone through. This is an extraordianry situation that one cannot think of many of such situations in any part of the world certainly not in Libya or North Korea as you mare want to compare situations. Such a situation needs extraordinary solution. The truth is that the people of Zimbabwe are paying a price for demanding to have a piece of what God gave to them, their own land.

No nation can claim to be independent when 70% of your fertile land is owned by about 500,000 people who are basically certizens of your former colonial master. Imagine that all the land occupied by CDC was owned by one or a few foreigner . Mutiply that ratio to the entire Southern Cameroons. Imagine that 70% of the fertile land in your village was owned by a foreigner, will you still call that your village? That individual basically has a claim to the entire village. We need to appricaite what the people of Zimbabwe are going through. The truth is that those who agreed to pay for the process of land redistribution have refused to do so and now are accusing Zimbabwe and Mr Mugabe for going ahead with the process.

We cannot forget that those who make up the majority of land owners, who are just about 1% of the population use to rule the country when Mugabe was in the bush fighting to take over power from them. He fought and defeated them.

One cannot forget that under the Lancaster House Agreement, this same 1% of the population was given a right to 20% of the seats in parliment. How can you make sense that 1% of a population has 20% of seats in parliament reserved for them? Before we rush into conclusion, about Mr Mugabe and Zimbabwe, we need to take some of these points into consideration. If Africans have to regain control of their countries and natural resources, they should expect to face what Mr. Mugabe is facing from the western media. Freedom does not come cheap.

Watesih

Julio,
That analogy of yours fits well.It is surprising that Mugabe is cosying up to Ghadaffi at a time when he has learnt a lesson of being a pariah,and succumbed to the demands of the West.Recently when North Korea was overrun by floods,they readily accepted aid from Americans,because they have tasted what it means trying to be an island on your own. Many years ago this was unthinkable!Julio the question we should be asking those who based their argument on British suspension of funding is why did Britain suspend the funding? Has Mugabe`s behaviour not proven Britain right? If this funding was suspended because of human rights abuses,is the world today not witness to Mugabe`s blood-thirsty exploits? Mugabe has not proven the West wrong for slamming sanctions.If the governments of the foreigners that occupied the fertile lands failed to continue funding,it was a good thing to seize the lands,but with a backup plan.That is what Mugabe failed to do,and that is why his people are starving.How can we now make sense that 70% of the population,which is mostly made up of Mugabe`s ethnic group has made him to seize land from 1% of colonialists without any way forward,thereby plunging the whole country into starvation?The blacks ,and the whites are both suffering.Who should we hold to account? Mugabe fought ,and defeated 1% of colonialists,today he is fighting to defeat 70% of his own people through hunger,and political killings.

Kumbaboy

US of Africa, you wrote "your mouth (i.e.Kumbaboy) has become too heavy to admit that Mugabe equally shares the blame in Zimbabwe's economic mess because of your black supremacist tendencies. Note, black supremacy is just as bad as white supremacy".

Kumbaboy is no black supremacist. He advocates fairness and justice. The wheel of justice is sympathetic to no one. It was US of Africa who asked for the "Whiteman to be kicked out". Such an egregious statement was racist and unacceptable.

Kumbaboy has strenuously argued that since Great Britain discontinued financing the cash-for-land program in callous violation of the Lancaster House Agreement, the regime of Mugabe acted in its national interest, vis-à-vis causes of the War of Independence, to redress the issue of land. That process disadvantaged British settlers, whose predictable emigration to their mother country Britain led to amplified propaganda and sanctions that have worsened the situation in Zimbabwe. At best of times, it is unrealistic to expect native Zimbabweans to immediately replace the technology know-how of displaced Rhodesians on farms. Development takes time and friendly infrastructure. This basic reality is not understood by beef-eater Watesih who thinks the new farmers can immediately turn round and profess at their peak to fill gaps vacated by professional farmers – a fallacy.

US of Africa on the other hand blames Mugabe for upholding basic principles over the availability of food – akin to the egregious “politics of the stomach” which is well-known in Cameroon.

It is no use blaming Mugabe. He too lives in Zimbabwe and is undoubtedly unhappy of the present situation. In the history of man, fundamental changes are enacted and actualized by those who have a full stomach of courage and not of FOOD.

Mugabe is no loner. Despite sanctions and travel bans, Robert Mugabe continues to travel through loop holes, cutting deals for his country. For example, with North Africans for oil and hard currency, with Southern Africa for trade and loans and with Asians for trade links. All in the interest of 13 million Zimbabweans.

Kumbaboy

Recommended studies to Watesih:-

(a) The charge of the light brigade (in annals of the Crimean War, explaining how a light brigade of the British Army defeated the Russian Army).

(b) High Noon - this is arguably the best Hollywood cowboy movie ever made. It is about what happened when outcasts escaped from prison and notified their previously victimized town of an impending visit. Who stood ground and who escaped. There is "US of Africa" in there stocking food to escape town before D day. There is a Mugabe in there who took a stand.

KB

Watesih

Kumbaboy,
You can`t catch up for the lost grounds in this debate,even if you present all the annals in the world,or suddenly become a Hollywood film critic.When they are debates like these,people start getting an insight into some of our minds.Some people may rightly or wrongly associate a line of thought with some of our names ,and when we open up in debates like this,it helps them better appreciate things.If you think i`m joking,enjoy some highlights here:
__"Mugabe is no great diplomat,and his fiery speech at the UN mimicks his approach to land issues in Zimbabwe" Good! It mimicks bullheaded stupidity!
__ "Of course Mugabe`s policy triggered all the mess,but the policy itself cannot be decoupled from the messy history of the country" So what do you do to your man Mugabe for triggering this mess? Encourage him to compare with European leaders?
__"Zimbabweans seemingly continue to back their old master".Cameroonians also seemingly elect Biya everytime!
__" Mugabe is human like every world leader-they all make mistakes" .Yeah, their common denominator is that they all make mistakes.What are their differences?
__" If the shelves of shops in this country were truly empty, as western reporters claim,we should have had a famine of epic proportion" So the intensity of famine is measured by the food on the shelves? How many times does your old grandmother in Kumba go to shops?
__ "His critics,their sick machinations, innuendo, and propaganda can go to hell.
Mugabe is not moving until nature calls"
Please repeat this same statement to all Cameroonians:'Biya is....
__" African states need to rally ,and start helping the people of Zimbabwe. No excuses!"
What will your Mugabe be doing? Showing European leaders that he is a strong African leader from a hungry country?
__ " Mugabe is nevertheless a tough guy-he is a war veteran,and arguably the only war veteran President on the continent." Goodboy! Paul Biya is also the only L`homme Lion President on the continent! Hope your love for despots doesn`t end with Mugabe.
__"The people of Zimbabwe elected him,and he has called for new elections in March 2008.Perhaps Watesih can offer a strategy to the leader of the opposition!" The people of Cameroon just elected Biya,and since you are the mouthpiece of dictators,offer your strategy to Biya in 2011!

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Watesih,
you are a genius. You have brilliantly captured Kumbaboy's confusion in this argument. He can't seem to make up his mind on what he wants to argue about.
He keeps talking about the "Politics of food". Kumbaboy, how many times will I tell you that I used the metaphor of food as an allegory? do you know what an allegory is? scroll up and read the context in which I talked about the allegory of food. This only goes to show your confusion.

Fon

KumbaBoy,
However, I have been able to learn one important thing from your confusion:That is, if you were a Zimbabwean, I would have been tempted to associate you with the murderous regime of Mugabe, that you benefit from it and will not see anything wrong with this intransigent dictator.But you are not a zimbabwean, which means that there are equally Cameroonians who out of ignorance and stupidity also support dictator Biya when they have virtually nothing to benefit from the regime.I had always hold that every Cameroonian that sees anything positive in the dictator, does so for selfish reasons.

A vast majority of Zimbabweans want Mugabe out; is that the man you want to extol for good policies? Which is your interest, to see that Mugabe is against the west or to see that Zimbabweans are happy?

Kumbaboy

Watesih and US of Africa,

This discussion is not about the Cameroon Leader. All leaders have strengths and weaknesses. Zimbabwe is not Cameroon!

Mugabe fought a bush war, negotiated independence and is holding a powerful world power to pay for walking away from a key Agreement. That is very courageous. As long as the majority of Zimbabweans continue to elect him then who are we to say otherwise?

KB

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Just when I thought Kumbaboy could not sound anymore confused, alas he jumps back in and sounds even more confused than ever. I am tired of talking. Kumbaboy, I will use your own words to prove my point that you are a confused man who doesn't know what he wants to argue about

"The Shona – Mugabe’s ethnic group makes up over 75% of the population. Within this ethnic group lies the caucus of Mugabe’s core support. Now, you can see why he has easily won all past elections despite reported irregularities and his party is set to win again in March 2008!"- Kumbaboy

Now listen to Kumbaboy again,

"As long as the majority of Zimbabweans continue to elect him then who are we to say otherwise?"- Kumbaboy

You admit that he gets into through power through corrupt means in one write up and then in another, you say we should not question Mugabe's competency because he is elected on legitimate means? Kumbaboy, I have one word for you: CONFUSED!!!!!


Kumbaboy

This debate terminates when the racist US of Africa and beef-eater Watesih start regurgitating old arguments.

Fon, on what basis can you claim that the vast majority of Zimbabweans want Robert Mugabe out? Don't be too glued to the anti-African UK press. According to UK press writings of the 80s, all of Black Africa should be wiped out by AIDS by now and Nelson Mandela would still be in jail.

Let's see what happens in March 2008. My wish is for Zimbabweans to prosper and live in happiness.
KB

Tekum Mbeng

I have listened quietly to this debate and agree strongly with the presentations by Kumbaboy and M. Nje.

My own view is that Robert Mugabe is now completing the assignment he, Canaan Banana, Joshua Nkomo, Ndabaningi Sithole, Bishop Muzerewa and others should have accomplished in 1980 had the War of Independence been allowed to reach its logical conclusions.

The withdrawal by Tony Blair's Government from the Lancaster House Agreement basically betrays an unfair attitude towards agreements with Africans. Shifting the blame to Mugabe alone and leaving Tony Blair who fired the first shot to go scot free is racist but expected of Rhodesians and their mouth pieces in the media.

simplice

USAfrica, please take another look at your last comment and you'll discover, you're proposing a startling contrast. You advocate Kumbaboy's confusionist ideal , through some incoherent regurgitations.
Now take a look your inconsistency by answering this question:" does the provenance of 75% of voter population from Mugabe's ethnic background any indication that the voting process is marred by irregularities?". Or in more simplistic terms, should Mugabe my considered undemocratically elected if he's mostly elected by elements of his ethnic group?.
Waiting gentleman.

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

surprise surprise, the chameleon Simplice is changing his colors and switching sides again.

In Zimbabwe, the president is from which tribe? the shona. The majority of the people in the Zimbabwean government are from which tribe? the shona. The richest black in Zimbabwe are from which tribe? the shona. Need I say more? isn't it clear why Mugabe is still in power today after more than 27 years?

Tekum Mbeng

May I observe that there is always a strong link between dominant tribes and their presence in Government everywhere.

Take Great Britain our model of parliamentary democracy for example where the English are a giant tribe over Wales and Scotland. In the last century, almost all Prime Ministers have been, guess it English! Even an English guy who failed his O/Ls had a chance to be PM. The wealthiest population is English and the capital city is in England. The permitted accent on BBC news is perfect English!

US of Africa, isn't that democracy? How can elections in Britain be plainly fair when powerful English press barons at the Mirror, Mail, telegraph, Today, Times, Sunday Times and the great Sun (under Australian Murdock - descendant of the English) are always ready to pounce and lampoon non-English leaders at election time? Know what they did to Neil Kinnock (Wales) in his titanic election clashes with Mrs Thatcher (England)?

Isn't that very "sophisticated" tribalism that is tantamount to rigging public opinion at election time in favor of the majority tribe? I also think Gordon Brown (from Scotland) will soon find out the power of major tribes in his impending clash with David Cameron (English leader of the Opposition Tory Party).

Democracy is not democratic. Big tribes take a mighty bite.

simplice

USAfrica, as much as I respect your view points, please respect my sincerity. I think, we shall again be loosing our noble traits of gentlemanism by thinking:" a fellow brother is against us, when he points out our hollows".My spelling-out the illogical presentation of your last but one comment is no indication of taking any side. If at all I have any side, it's that of truth and reason.
Tekum Mbeng, thanks for the brilliant analysis. Let USAfrica take another look at it before qualifying me a cameleon.

M Nje

Tekum Mbeng,
Anyone who has spent just a short time on the current crisis in Zimbabwe will wander if those arguing against Kumbaboy on this issue are coming from another planet.

It is beyond any understanding. Important nationalistic issues are view through a prism of the STOMACH.

God save us from our stomach.

Danny Boy

Folks, it has been a wonderful debate and like Simplice I would prefer to sit this one out and learn from Kumba Boy's mastery of his subject. His opponents have been equally brilliant.Please Guys keep it up, some of us are really enjoying it.
I should however like to point out to Tekum Mbeng that it was not Tony Blair's Government that reneged on the implementation of the Lancaster House Agreement but Maggie Thatcher's. Reasons being that money earmarked for this was diverted to the campaign in the Falklands.
After the Falklands War, Britain suffered further economic crises, the collapse of the Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM), just being one example. Needless to say Britain has kept postponing this responsibility to Zimbabweans until now.
As already intimated I would like to sit on the fence folks. Do not ask me to fall, ha ha.
Have a wonderful day.

Watesih

USAfrica,
That point about tribes was well thought out.Its a good thing others have joined you to show how dorminant groups use their numbers,strength,and wealth to monopolize power.That is exactly what ensues in Zimbabwe,where 70% of the population tolerates a dictator for 27 years.They have become his slaves,and he is their slave.They kill to please his whims,and he seizes farms from others to give them ,even if they don`t know what to do with this farms.Had Britain not suspended funding,Mugabe would have continued hiding under the normalcy that these funds would have generated.When the funds dried up because of Britain`s national exigences,it was now left for him to show the world what type of a freedom fighter he had been. When given the opportunity,a freedom fighter always takes his people to the promise land.But here is one who is 'unable to lead,and unwilling to be led'.
Lets now go back to the logic of dorminant tribes that some say are always predisposed to govern.Lets assume for a while that Britain is the dorminant tribe as compared to Zimbabwe.Britain has withheld its money,
just as 70% of his tribesmen have pushed him to seize lands from the 1% of colonialists.
Do we now see the logic,that when Mugabe terrorises the weak at home,he is in turn terrorised by another dorminant tribe? How many Lancaster Houses did we have in South Africa,Namibia,Zambia.How do we see the whites in Namibia today?What has the Namibian president been telling the world about reconciliation? Those who expect Britain to cough up cash for Zimbabwe are dreaming.Mugabe after seizing lands from colonialists does not even give them to his own people.This type of bad faith must be sanctioned.Britain ,a colonial power knows its puppets,and digs away the ground under their feet when the need arises.Britain had known this was a butcher in a freedom fighters robes,and that given the opportunity,he was going to go out hunting for humanbeings.Thats exactly what happened ,and is happening.He can pretend to be Ok with the accords he signs with Lybia,China, and so on,but he knows who pays the piper in the world.That is why he goes to their rostrum to cry his plight.Its good he is spending his last days in agony,seeing his people dying of starvation,and being bullied by dorminant races,just as he does to his people.

Kumbaboy

The diatribe above from Watesih speaks volumes about the self-proclaimed "British beef-eater". We don't know (Danny Boy help us) if mad cow disease has been fully eradicated from beef in England, especially the oxtail meat loved by immigrants.

I diasgree with Dannyboy that Whitehall's withdrawal from the Lancaster House Agreement was caused by the Falklands war.
It was caused by bad faith and the usual tendency by most White folk to "nail and crucify" a black man for seeming errors or actual errors of small magnitude. In the same situation, a White guy would be set free and his errors attributed to 'harmless exubberance". It was not beyond British capability to fix the program and ensure success.

It is most satisfying to observe that Africans and many in the Developing World see the double standards involved and maintain a quiet helpline to the people of Zimbabwe. Sense and sensibility mandates that Rhodesians fail to atone for their past misdeeds against humanity.

rexon

LONDON DECLARATION OCTOBER 1ST 2007

DEPARTMENT OF PRESS AND COMMUNICATIONS

The European Leadership of the SCYL and SCNC-UK met for a two day
coalition building talks in London (September 29th –October 1st 2007)
and formed the Southern Cameroons Europe Coalition with the aim of
uniting the forces within the continent of Europe for the prosecution
of the independence campaign.

The Coalition of SCNC-UK and SCYL agreed to work together in a spirit
of honesty, focus and respect for the fundamental position of each
group.

The Coalition agreed that decisions on major policy issues concerning
our struggle for a separate homeland, shall be agreed upon base on
momentary majority and the principle of consensus that reflects
practicable reality with a well thought out mechanism of
implementation.

The Coalition Observes with utter dismay:

That Her Britannic Majesty has used the Common Wealth and the Foreign
Office to issue numerous derogatory declarations absorbing her sad
responsibility patterning to the plight of our people in the
economic, social-cultural and political realm. The Coalition empowers
the Department of Diplomacy to explore every means to force the
United Kingdom to reverse this standpoint and assume her
responsibility and take active steps towards addressing the present
political impasse prevailing over our homeland

The impunity, recklessness and heavy-handedness with which La
Republique du Cameroun has been prosecuting and maintain the
occupation and empowers the department of defence to explore every
avenue in the defence of our people, our land and our way of life.

The distortion of facts, manipulation of international public opinion
by the occupying regime
and empowers the department of Press and Communications to leave no
stone unturned in the education of our people and international
institutions on the facts of history and the brutality of the
occupying regime.

While recognising the efforts of the different movement and our
people, the Coalition calls for unity on purpose and determination in
our resistance against occupation and our fight for a separate
homeland. We extend our appreciation to all Southern Cameroonians and
sympathisers in the Diaspora, especially in France, the UK, Belgium
and the bravery of Southern Cameroons citizens in the occupied
homeland in their continuous defiance of the occupiers.

Our people should understand that the fight against oppression is
long and tedious but no matter the suffering the price and sacrifice
for freedom is worth it.

The Conference further endorses the following:
That henceforth no decisions, audiences, proclamations,
representation and or contacts should be negotiated or pursued by any
(individual or group) without due endorsement or clearance from the
committee set up by this London Declaration.

That the committees elected and endorsed by the peoples
representatives and the General Assembly of the said conference from
date on is the only legitimate institution authorised to speak on
behalf of the Southern Cameroons.

That all the leaders of the SCNC should keep their house clean and
united for the good of the Southern Cameroons. Also, that they should
within a time frame of one year call for general election to pave the
way for serious and genuine business.

That diplomatic meetings and conference where Southern Cameroons is a
participant can be attended by delegates in the Diaspora to avoid the
excess spending to fly leaders from the Southern Cameroons which
could be diverted to alleviate the plight of our people.

The conference also endorsed a Plan "B "which is a fall back point
giving that diplomacy must be pursued by the threat of force and
remains the only fall back point should diplomacy fails. Conference
participants agreed our people have the right to defend themselves in
the face of an attack or continues occupation.

The conference also endorse the need to have an in-depth
investigation into the continuous crisis in the University of Buea
and also on the attitude of some Southern Cameroons leaders; and
southern Cameroonians who continue to endorse occupation.

The Conference also put into place a finance committee to vigorously
pursue the raising of funds.

The Conference General assembly came out with the following persons
to pilot the different committees set up at the London Conference.
They will also serve as the peoples representative and voice.

The Following committees were formed to effect follow-up and action

• Administration and Planning & Co-ordinator:
• B: Committee on Finance:

• Press Secretary:

• Defence Committee:

• Diplomacy:

These persons from date of publication will pilot the actions on
behalf of the Southern Cameroons representing the different Movements
who are bonded by this declaration and her adjoining actions and
decisions.

February 9-11 2008 has been set for as date for the next Southern
Cameroons Conference and will be held in the Municipality of The
Hague in the Netherlands. All Southern Cameroonians and organizations
are Welcome


Done in London October 1st 2007

Press Secretary
Astebom Alfred Forminyen

NTEB

THE POST IF YOU GUYS CANNOT UPDATE THIS SITE REGULARLY, PLEASE SHOT IT DOWN. tHIS IS DISASTROUS. IN THE INFORMATION AGE WHERE NEWS AGAENCIES UPADTE THEIR WEBSITES EVERY HOUR, I FIND IT AMAZING YOU GUYS CANNOT UPDATE UR WEBSITE EVERY DAY. THIS ISA DISGRACE

Watesih

Kumbaboy,
You have become too frantic,and this comes as a result of trying to conceal a weakness.No doubt you no longer hide the race game.All your mistakes are now seen in the whites.Your ability trying to show there`s some semblance of normalcy in the Zimbabwean situation is easily betrayed by your little voice celebrating the alms from some friendly African countries.Kumbaboy,you said people were talking about famine in Zimbabwe as if there was nothing on the shelves of shops.In the 21st century ,here you are celebrating alms from other third world countries.There are two things;when like despots are not accusing the whiteman for all their plight,they are waiting for crumbs from their brothers.We knew that with all the noise you have been making in this debate ,you were going to end up begging for food from other Africans. Did we not hear you making a mockery of us as people who love food? People like you who taunt the whiteman always end up craving for a "quiet
helpline". North Korea tried,and they are gulping down American food at this very moment.Libya tried,and is today going after the West`s nuclear technology. You can shout Lancaster House for a hundred years ,but nothing will come out of that weeping.Just keep waiting for your alms,through your "quiet helpline".

UnitedStatesOfAfrica

Kumbaboy,
wonders shall never seize. You avoid the core of the argument and flip flop into unrelated arenas to obfuscate us. You are now talking about British beef( for what reason, I don't know), Lancaster House agreement, Falkland wars and the list goes on.
Let us stick the the main argument. We have all accepted the part the West played in Zimbabwe's plight. Should Mugube equally share the blame for Zimbabwe's economic mess? that was the argument.
This time Kumbaboy, stick to the saubject.

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