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« Culture Minister To Be Guest At US Pageant | Main | Police Question Muna On 'Albatross' Deal »

Friday, 08 August 2008

Comments

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mk the southerner

Very inspiring.

Tombele

Besides HIV there are other sexually transmitted diseases like syphilis, gonorhea herpes etc that can be prevented by condoms. It seems to me it would be a lot easier to let the epidemic explode in Africa and sell more costly drugs than condoms or let it run rampant and reduce the population as you claim. Why can't sub-saharan countries get together and spray DDT to stop malaria instead of a free pill. Also I would like to know the minute quantity of sperm that passes through the condom as you say is enough to start an infection.

stranger

I like the political aspect of your write-up. However, the "findings" sound scientific and must have been supported by experimental data.If the virus actually passes through the condom, your report will make headline news in the world and also send scientists back to work. Why don't you go ahead and publish this in a scientific journals.

Grandotis

I have seen that many people have become experts on issues, they do not understand properly. First there is growing scientific evidence showing that there is no virus that cause AIDS however there is a situation called AIDS. So in the absence of the psuedo Virus , what is chief Ngwana talking about? these are the kind of people who fail to chase the object and chase the shadow, the few times I have been in Cameroon I have seen how NGOs make monies in the name of HIV/AIDS but is this more than the poor quality of water that Cameroonians consume, is it more than the open toilets behind kitchens, is is more than the hyginic conditions of food people buy along the streets, its is more than the unrefined beer than Cameroonians consume without any assurance of the the water quality used in producing the beer? is it more than the lack of basic body building materials such as milk, good food, and more to that , the quality of air that we take into the lungs? It is time that Africans start understanding the conspiracies control us the black race. However I am not against save sex and prevention of sexually transmitted infections which are real. Chief Ngwana, I beg you to get to study the concept of HIV and you will come to understand better. The Immune system will fail due to the above factors , and Chief Ngwana should stop sending out rubbish. I am ready for a dabate on issues like these.
A chief like you should be in the Village helping the people get clean and good drinking water, and stay out of things you have no understanding.

eyallow

When I read this ugly piece, my skin crawled with absolute irritation at how one man could stand up and make ridiculous statements that could jeopardize the life of an entire nation.

In science, nothing is ensured to work 100%. Even the drugs we take have only been ascertained to have a certain confidence interval of efficiency. Even if that efficiency is only 70%, it will then be argued on those basis that it could safe 70% of those lives that take the drug which is better than nothing!

Summarily writing some bullshit like this to dismiss the efficacy of condoms on disease abatement puts a whole nation at risk and give youngsters a rational to indulge in dangerous sexual behaviours.

The thing I always find amazing is how we Africans always are quick to fault the white man for his exploitative tendencies. This sort of narrow mindedness is one of the biggest scourges that have left Africa trailing behind developmentally. This is coupled to the fact that opinions are made without a good experimental or investigative backing and unfortunately obtaining the right amount of data to justify a statement or course is not perpetuated.

It will be exceedingly difficult to get a piece like this one pass through the iron fist editorial scrutiny of most newspapers of international standards without careful verification and enlisting the advice of notable experts in the field to confirm such volatile information.

HIV may be a scourge in Africa but remember that everyone lives in fear of it regardless of where ever we are, race, gender, colour or social and final status. Condoms are a big business in the western world as well. Ride the buses, the trains and see bill boards all carrying strong cautionary advice on the importance of the use of condoms for disease prevention in every modern city in Europe.

You go to university parties here and it is common to find condoms scattered all over the dance floors just in case you stumble onto something unexpected. You go into toilets in pubs, airport and train terminals, you find machines vending condoms.

I strongly detest the nature of this article and it is probably one of the biggest ones that has really made me to considerable doubt the effectiveness of the editorial policy of this newspaper. I'm not suggesting censorship, but rather strong investigative journalism should be encouraged. Matters as pertinent as this one should be written in conjunction with interviews from experts in the field.

Who is Chief Ngwana and what sort of knowledge does he really have about the subject matter of condom fabrication and the advancement and testing techniques applied? And what brand of condoms was he describing here?

It is just a sick sick sick preposterous article-SORRY!

Ahadji

Chief A.S. Ngwana,
Thank you for your article. When I read through it and read the comments posted by those who had reacted so far, I was astonished and disappointed with their views. You have raised a legitimate concern about condoms and HIV transmission. First let me point out that when someone is infected with HIV, he or she is sensitive to almost all common illnesses. As a scientist with long working years of experience, I will wish to point out the following clarifications
1) HIV cannot pass through a safe condom
2) HIV can pass through an unsafe condom and other unsafe sex accessories.

The billion Franc question now is to know what is meant by safe and unsafe condoms.
A scientific publication by Ditmore and Neth (see reference below) has pointed that
“In some places – including Cambodia, China, and Africa etc… – condoms have been modified and are dangerous to the receptive partner, causing injury to the vagina and anus. Such injuries contribute to the transmission of disease, so these condoms are not useful for prevention of STIs or HIV”
This study showed that HIV and STIs increase amongst people using unsafe condoms probably because the modifications allowed easy passage of HIV and other microscopic particles.
The next Billion Franc question now is
1) Can a common man know which condom is safe or unsafe especially in our society where people can use money to put their products in the market? No.
2) How far are we sure that most of the condoms sent to us are not designed to be unsafe so as to reduce our labor force and make us under-developed for ever? We need to think well especially with the present study showing that the condoms in our market are the unsafe types.
The Vatican has come out strongly against the use of condoms because it has observed these discrepancies in the quality of condoms and deems it as a strategy by the developed nations to get rid of poorer nations and stalled their development.
As a scientist, I will tell people in Africa, China, and other less developed countries to resist condoms and rely on abstinence and fidelity. Else, go for an HIV test every three months after having sex with someone you don’t trust with a condom.
Reference
M . Ditmore , C . Neth (2006). Unsafe Condoms and Other Unsafe Sex Accessories. Reproductive Health Matters, Volume 14, Issue 28, Pages 171 - 173

eyallow

Ahadji,

Thanks for your posting and for the informative reference.

I will like to note first of all that at the beginning of the abstract, the authors clearly state that condoms remain the sole effective mode of preventing HIV spreading.

This is an important statement as it immediately debugs the ridiculous idea proposed by Chief Ngwana that condoms are virtually useless.

You then bring in a new dimension which is that of modifications of condoms. This is realistically a problem. But I find fault with your argument because you take us back to this demeaning belief that we have to depend on the white man for everything in this statement.


"How far are we sure that most of the condoms sent to us are not designed to be unsafe so as to reduce our labor force and make us under-developed for ever? We need to think well especially with the present study showing that the condoms in our market are the unsafe types."

If we know that condoms are effective and that we can produce effective ones, I do not know of any patent written down in stone that says Africa cannot design and produce its own condoms!

Then you take the discussion into a religious turn. I should clarify that God in my eyes died the day christainity and all its like came to our beloved Africa.

The Vatican has no authority to endorse anything when it comes to condom usage because it has not consigned its own team of researchers to investigate the efficacy of condoms. Rather their approach is basically biblical which is geared at discouraging adventitious pre-marital sex! That is not my concern and i do not believe any one has the right to decide my sexual rights.

I read on the BBC where pope John Paul III was being accused as having caused one of the biggest carnage in human history because he strongly opposed the usage of condoms and Africa currently representing one of the biggest assemblages of catholicism on earth bared the crunch!

Further you make a claim I believe the Vatican will immediately distance itself from concerning the fact that the reason they oppose condom usage is linked to the fact that it is being used as a weapon to stall development in Africa. Can you show us a reference that is based on a properly conducted scientific study given that you are a practicing scientist?

if you consider yourself a scientist, then you will know that in science every pertinent statement that is uttered and which can cause the rewriting of our text books must be proven by stringent empirical data.

This accounts for why why the claims by a certain Prof. Victor Anoma Ngu about a drug called Vanhivax treating AIDS has met a blank world internationally. He has failed to carry out drug trials in the way recommended for every drug we have in our markets today. We can't take short cuts because drugs are potentially toxic to us. yet I have heard many say the reason why his drug has not been recognized is because he is black.


We are all living things and man is collaborative by nature especially if they stand to benefit and on the other hand may become exploitative if the also stand to benefit. This description umbrellas every person regardless of race and background.

Thus instead of staying and uttering suspicious statements like the one that led to the abandonment of the polio immunization campaign in Nigeria which saw a resurgence of the malicious poilio virus in Nigeria as well as neighbouring cameroon, when new technologies are developed we must learn to embrace and immediately adopt them to suit our kind and needs instead of waiting to be fed. Then when we are fed we complain that we are not being fed enough or that we are being fed the wrong stuff for malicious intentions.

Stand back and think my fellow scientist!

eyallow

Ahadji,

Thanks for your posting and for the informative reference.

I will like to note first of all that at the beginning of the abstract, the authors clearly state that condoms remain the sole effective mode of preventing HIV spreading.

This is an important statement as it immediately debugs the ridiculous idea proposed by Chief Ngwana that condoms are virtually useless.

You then bring in a new dimension which is that of modifications of condoms. This is realistically a problem. But I find fault with your argument because you take us back to this demeaning belief that we have to depend on the white man for everything in this statement.


"How far are we sure that most of the condoms sent to us are not designed to be unsafe so as to reduce our labor force and make us under-developed for ever? We need to think well especially with the present study showing that the condoms in our market are the unsafe types."

If we know that condoms are effective and that we can produce effective ones, I do not know of any patent written down in stone that says Africa cannot design and produce its own condoms!

Then you take the discussion into a religious turn. I should clarify that God in my eyes died the day christainity and all its like came to our beloved Africa.

The Vatican has no authority to endorse anything when it comes to condom usage because it has not consigned its own team of researchers to investigate the efficacy of condoms. Rather their approach is basically biblical which is geared at discouraging adventitious pre-marital sex! That is not my concern and i do not believe any one has the right to decide my sexual rights.

I read on the BBC where pope John Paul III was being accused as having caused one of the biggest carnage in human history because he strongly opposed the usage of condoms and Africa currently representing one of the biggest assemblages of catholicism on earth bared the crunch!

Further you make a claim I believe the Vatican will immediately distance itself from concerning the fact that the reason they oppose condom usage is linked to the fact that it is being used as a weapon to stall development in Africa. Can you show us a reference that is based on a properly conducted scientific study given that you are a practicing scientist?

if you consider yourself a scientist, then you will know that in science every pertinent statement that is uttered and which can cause the rewriting of our text books must be proven by stringent empirical data.

This accounts for why why the claims by a certain Prof. Victor Anoma Ngu about a drug called Vanhivax treating AIDS has met a blank wall internationally. He has failed to carry out drug trials in the way recommended for every drug we have in our markets today. We can't take short cuts because drugs are potentially toxic to us. yet I have heard many say the reason why his drug has not been recognized is because he is black.


We are all living things and man is collaborative by nature especially if they stand to benefit and on the other hand may become exploitative if they also stand to benefit. This description umbrellas every person regardless of race and background.

Thus instead of staying and uttering suspicious statements like the one that led to the abandonment of the polio immunization campaign in Nigeria which saw a resurgence of the malicious poilio virus in Nigeria as well as neighbouring cameroon, when new technologies are developed we must learn to embrace and immediately adopt and adapt them to suit our kind and needs instead of waiting to be fed. Then when we are fed we complain that we are not being fed enough or that we are being fed the wrong stuff for malicious intentions.

Stand back and think my fellow scientist!

Grandotis

It very funny when a dogma without any scientific proof is fed into the minds of individuals because we have fools who cannot spend time to think and ask, real questions, once the news is in the media they take it in without second thought. There is no relationship between HIV and AIDS, so I hope you people are current with the current scientic developments. There is AIDS that kills, but if any person on this forum can show me a link showing the mechanism by which HIV causes AIDS, then I will be happy to increase my knowledge. I know many will say it kills the T4 cells, but that has no mechanism or proof. So its important that we dont just jump into conclusions we cannot even spend time to investigate. Chief Ngwanw talked of HIV beinig a microorganism, that was really funny.Has he ever read that what is called HIV are particles of RNA? or remains of denatured cells, so what does he call micro organism? I am sure he has an NGO that is begging for money from the west. And I see the real problem in a Country like CAmeroon where people are living in ignorance and spread any information fed to them because of their greed. AIDS is real but there is no link scientific link between how AIDS is related to HIV. And lots of evidence is there. So all this talk of HIV and condom has no place, it belongs to the old school pushed by big business and has no grounds today.

Ahadji

Thanks for your comments. Please go to Sciencedirect and read the entire article. The abstract alone is not sufficient to get the real picture. Also read related articles.
Thanks

Ahadji

Grandotis and Eyallow,
Please try to read the entire article before you jump into conclusions and no one is telling you how live your sex life. You can use these condoms as you like.
But this study shows that the condoms sent to Africa, China etc are the unsafe category.
The CDC had put forward a statement 2 yrs before this study which say:
"A commonly held misperception is that latex condoms contain "holes" that allow passage of HIV. Although this may be true for natural membrane condoms, laboratory studies show that intact latex condoms provide a continuous barrier to microorganisms, including HIV, as well as sperm".
NB:
1) The phrase "although this may be true for natural membrane condoms" is very important in that statement. What are natural membrane condoms? These are condoms that have been design to make sex partners have more pleasure during sex but reducing the chances of pregnancy but not HIV or STIs.
2) Intact latex condoms are the safe condoms I mentioned in my first posting which was obviously demonstrated in the study quoted earlier.
3) The condoms mostly sold in the countries the study was conducted were the unsafe type.
Do people have a legitimate right to know about this? I think yes.
Can we forcefully stop them from using them? No, I don’t think.
We can do more work in protecting our population by making our own safe latex condoms but in the main time, we most edge people not to rely deeply on these condoms.
Lastly, I think the chief is not a scientist but he is reporting on what he has read in the simplest form so that all can understand.
Thank you

Grandotis

Hi Ahadji, science direct is not a scientific artilce, its has a collection of articles from different specialities, I mean I need an article showing clearly the scientific basis and mechanism showing how HIV kills the T4 cells or how it causes AIDS. There is no mechanism and the notion of HIV causing AIDS was a generally accepted concept that was accepted by a group of pharma promoted individuals and nowadays that has come under strict opposition from a small but well trained group of experts. And every day that passes exposes the weakness of this theory that time will eventaully kill it. It pains me when people of the west try to paint others expecially Africans as not worthy of any thing apart from a psuedo virus , just to satisfy their selfish interest, and I am sure many of us in this forum who can read and understand basic facts can place more effort questioning basic concepts like this one. We need to think and make real scientic conclusions based on scientific results not general acceptance, but so far there is no isolation of any thing called HIV, which is even the precondition for difining its existence. So I am sure you can go deep and look into the wonders of the internet to get the truth.

Grandotis

Hi Aladji what makes you feel so confortable calling the HIV particles as they are called now a microorganism? I mean what is the scientific basis for that? is it that you are satisfied with the lies that the media feeds you with , that you have no time to take a second thought?

Kingkong

Eyallow,
I must say that was a well crafted piece of article you wrote. I wish we had more people like you on this forum. Having lost several relatives to AIDS and presently having an Auntie afflicted by it at the moment, gets anoying when people like "Honourable Chief Ngwana" have ideas of thier own published on a National Journal like the Post. Unfortunately he doesnot see it fit to bounce back to the bottom of his article and see what comments have been posted. Is this not ridiculous

"One of my lawyers, a woman told me of a pathetic incidence, that when her colleague was dying of AIDS she asked her to take care of her little son. The dying woman said that what pained her most was the fact that she and her boyfriend used a fresh condom every time they had sex, so how could she have caught AIDS? Of course the unfortunate woman did not know that condoms do not prevent AIDS."

What piece of advice is that meant to pass to the Public. Abstinence!! Does Chief Ngwana not also know that Sexual intercourse is not the only way through which HIV can be contacted. To have him back his story of condoms because of that story, makes him better offf in the village taking care in the sales of Land.

Condom distribution is not only a thing of Africa. In the US, there are volunteers who go around distributing condoms despite thier low prevalence rates and acess to good medication. Just recently in DC, there was the issue of the paper material used in wrapping the condoms. People were concerned because it easily got torn in thier pockets and so arouse the fear that it might not have been properly made altogether. Still that didnot dismiss the idea of condoms effectively protecting against HIV.
http://www.fighthivindc.org/labels/condoms.html

Somany Cameroonians are always waiting for ideologies like this. News like this runs fast in the quarters. Donot be surprise it will soon be big news "that it has been tested and proven that condoms cannot protect one from HIV". Does Chief Ngwana thinks this piece of information will drive people to abstinence. No!! It will drive more people to the believe that HIV doesnot even exist, and we all know the consequences. I think the Post needs to withdraw articles like this, and make apologies to the Public. I am sure Chief's next article will be " Humans have 45 teeth"

Grandotis

Hi Grandlexuz, sad to hear you lost some body from the AIDS epidemic, sadly enough many more people are dying because of AIDS which is principally due to weakness in the IMMUNE SYSTEM. However, there is no relationship between AIDS and HIV which is not yet isolate nor shown how it KILLS T4cells.
I wrote in my first posting after reading this article, possible reasons for the failure of the IMMUNE SYSTEM. Between 90-70 percent of women with HIV give birth to children with no HIV, then how is that possible, that HIV is transmitted. There are lots of other cases showing that HIV is not transferable but the immune system can fail leading to illness and might be subsequent death. Just recently the US congress reversed a bill that did not allow HIV infected persons to get into the US, why, the reason was that HIV was not fully understood and much needs to be done. Simply stating the idea of HIV is a dogma, but AIDS is real. So all this talk of condom and HIV is making no sense, meanwhile condoms are used in the west mostly to prevent other sexually transmitted infections. So my point is the whole article of Pa Ngwana and subsequent postings did not imply any sense.

Ahadji

Grandotis &Co,
Thanks for your postings. ScienceDirect is made up of so many scientific articles but I gave an article in my first posting and the reference. You can download the full article in ScienceDirect and get the facts. It’s not wise to try an argument when you lack the facts. In addition, I did not say HIV is a microorganism. I was quoting the report of the Centre of Disease Control (CDC).
Secondly, you have been echoing on this forum that there is no relationship between HIV infection and immune suppression. Well, there are millions of scientific articles that have demonstrated that HIV actually induces apoptosis of T4 Cells. Take a look at these abstracts. I could not post the entire articles because it is not allowed.
Please shelf your ridiculous argument.
Thanks

First article:

HIV-1 GP120-mediated immune suppression and lymphocyte destruction in the absence of viral infection
KJ Weinhold, HK Lyerly, SD Stanley, AA Austin, TJ Matthews and DP Bolognesi The Journal of Immunology, Vol 142, Issue 9 3091-3097, Copyright © 1989 by American Association of Immunologists

The magnitude of immunologic defects observed in HIV-1-infected individuals before the development of overt AIDS is disproportionately high in comparison to the levels of infectious virus in these patients-- suggesting that factors other than direct virus-induced cytopathology may be involved. With this in mind, we investigated the immunologic consequences of the interaction between purified HIV-1 gp120 and the CD4 molecules expressed by uncommitted as well as Ag-specific lymphocytes. HIV-1 gp120 exhibited a dose-dependent immunosuppressive effect on: 1) Ag-driven proliferation of cloned CD4+ lymphocytes, 2) OKT3-driven proliferation of cloned CD4+ lymphocytes, and 3) cytolytic activity of CD4+, EBV-specific CTL. Thus, HIV-1 gp120 can, in a manner similar to OKT4A antibodies, suppress T cell activation and the expression of cytolytic activities through its interaction with CD4. Additionally, activated CD4+ lymphoblasts can be rendered susceptible to immune cytolysis by virtue of their binding of purified gp120. This "targeting" of activated lymphoblasts can occur with levels of gp120 far below that which is needed to saturate all OKT4A-defined CD4 epitopes. Adsorbed gp120 could be demonstrated on the surface of these cells for up to 12 h, a sufficient time for interaction with host cytolytic elements. The data from these in vitro modeling experiments highlight one of many potential mechanisms of HIV-1 induced immunosuppression and lymphocyte destruction that can occur in the absence of infectious virus and that is based on the unique interaction between HIV-1 gp120 and its cellular receptor, CD4.


Second Article:

C. Cicala, J. Arthos, A. Rubbert, S. Selig, K. Wildt, O. J. Cohen, and A. S. Fauci
HIV-1 envelope induces activation of caspase-3 and cleavage of focal adhesion kinase in primary human CD4+ T cells
PNAS, February 1, 2000; 97(3): 1178 - 1183.

Abstract
Binding of HIV type 1 (HIV-1) envelope glycoproteins to the surface of a CD4+ T cell transduces intracellular signals through the primary envelope receptor, CD4, and a coreceptor, either CCR5 or CXCR4. Furthermore, envelope–CD4+ cell interactions increase rates of apoptosis in peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs). We demonstrate that in primary T lymphocytes, recombinant HIV-1 envelope proteins induce the activation of caspase-3 and caspase-6, which belong to a family of cysteine proteases that, upon activation, promote programmed cell death. Envelope-mediated activation of caspase-3 and caspase-6 depended on envelope–CD4 receptor interactions; CCR5-utilizing as well as CXCR4-utilizing envelopes elicited this response. Focal adhesion kinase (FAK) is a substrate of both caspase-3 and caspase-6, and inactivation of FAK by these caspases promotes apoptosis. Envelope treatment of lymphocytes led to the cleavage of FAK in a manner consistent with caspase-mediated cleavage.

Kumbaboy

Thanx Ahadji for these references. Given their suicidal mindsets, one would not be surprised if "Grandotis &Co" are HIV carriers.

These STD diseases can be stopped if sexual promiscuity and marital infidelity can be controlled. Chief Ngwana's piece is greatly appreciated. Condoms are not the answer.

KB

Radicalbrother

FELLOW COMRADES,
YOU CAN KILL THE MESSENGER AND NOT THE MESSAGE.
SUPPOSE YOU ARE HEALTHY AND YOU ARE GIVEN A CONDOM TO GO TO BED WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN TESTED TO HAVE THE HIV VIRUS, WILL YOU ACCEPT?
YOU GUYS ARE SITTING ON A KEG OF GUN POWDER AND JOKING WITH FIRE.

street

Hello,I am new in this forum.I am a Cameroon and curious to know information in Cameroon.I resides out of Cameroon.Concern the subject of this article,what is the best means then to prevent or eradicate HIV or AIDS virus if condom is not suitable or not protective?
Would it be a matter of citing scientific proofs about its proficiency or to help sensitized the population with a new discovery or methids of preventing the deadly virus.
Thanks.

Source

It is probable that the little animals only suck the grossest juice through the pores of the thin membrane which covers the leaves.

via

It is probable that the little animals only suck the grossest juice through the pores of the thin membrane which covers the leaves.

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