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« The Global Recession and Cameroon's Economy | Main | Away with foreign military bases and foreign troops in Africa »

Monday, 25 May 2009

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Congosa man

Hamilton, you are no different than a Taliban, who abandons his mind and hands it over to a book written by desert primitives two thousand years ago. The bible supports slavery, therefore slavery is good? Manyu people still call some other Manyu people slaves or 'slafes'. That is OK too and idiots like you will not question it. Hamilton, you do not deserve a computer. Write on a stone tablet like your role models. You do not deserve to ride in a car. Why? It is not in the bible and especially not a Japanese car, because it is designed and built by a heathen. Go and live in a cave somewhere.

Facter

Ever heard about the Golden Rule? It is in the Bible. Jesus calls it the greatest commandment and the only one you really need to be concerned about because it covers everything. It is also found in some shape in most religions. Check this out-
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm

Ever heard this one? Matthew 7:21? "Not everyone who keeps saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will get into the kingdom of heaven, but only the person who keeps doing the will of my Father in heaven."

You are going through the motions but you are not really a Christian my dear fellow.

William V.

I am not a Bible scholar, but I have read in the Bible where it tells how slaves should conduct themselves. This is not support of slavery. Please site book and chapter where the Bible "supports slavery".

As far as the Golden Rule, if I went on a murdering spree, I would expect "others" to throw me in jail and protect themselves from me. If I had knowledge of a cohort's plans to soon commit additional murders, I would expect "others" to use harsh interrogation tactics to extract information from me in order to prevent the cohort from carrying out his plans. Do you interpret the Golden Rule to mean we should leave ourselves open to destruction by others?

Facter

No, I do not think you should open yourselves to destruction, but do not justify violence with Christianity, because Jesus was a turn the other cheek kind of guy. Do not use violence and torture and use Christianity as cover or justification. Just admit that you are fighting fire with fire. Be truthful.

With regards to slavery and the Bible, this is a quote from Paul to the Ephesians.


"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free."


Ephesians 6:5-8

I suggest that you read the bible cover to cover again, because you evidently missed some spots. As a literal believer, when are you stocking up on some obedient slaves?

William V.

Facter,

I am not sure whose comments you are replying to. Surely you did not come to the conclusion that I am a "literal believer" (whatever that means) from my post.

I am familiar with those three verses from Ephesians which you quote. But you subject yourself to "literalism" if you stop at verse 8. In respect to the "cover-to-cover" approach, why not continue on with verse 9, which says, "And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favouritism with him."

So verse 9 is saying to give your slaves the treatment described in verses 5 - 8. Now won't you agree that is hardly slavery at all?! So please cite another Bible reference that "supports slavery".

You state that Hamilton is "not really a Christian". In all my years of closely associating with Christians, Muslims, Hindus, heathens, atheists and God knows what else, I never met anyone who had developed the skill to discern who is "not really a Christian". Sorry to impose upon you, but is there a technique whereby one can easily acquire this skill?

Facter

Furthermore, I believe in crushing Talibans and Al khaida. That has nothing to do with Christianity, but practicing torture is an insidious slippery slope for democracy and civil liberties. The Israelis gave up practicing torture for that reason and also because it gives bad intelligence. Mr Ventura, the ex-governor of Minnesota and a former Navy SEAL who was water boarded as part of his training states that it is torture, and that he can make anyone confess to anything with water boarding in a pretty short time. The American government tried and executed Japanese officers for practicing torture including water boarding at the end of World War 2. Lets be consistent. When America tortures, people like Mr Biya think it is ok.

Reex, Flames

First and foremost it has never been proven that torture stops or reduces violence or terrorism, especially if some of the victims have not yet been tried in a due judicial process.

Contrary to the myth of torture as a necessary evil or as a the lesser of two evils, torture is violent and violence begets violence. Many readers on this site may be aware of noted increase in violence that flared up in Iraq immediately after the Abu Graib detention pictures were made available.

Such incidents have even prompted President Obama to make reservations on the release of sensitive material to the public, due to concerns that anti-American sentiments be provoked as a result of the probable outrageous nature of the content.

It is also quite surprising to read the comments that seem to purport the support of violence/torture in the Bible. Everything depends on context and one should not forget certain passages of the Bible were written in a historical time line unlike ours today. For example, a literal interpretation of the Old Testament portrays God as a warlike Being, who encourages his people to slaughter their enemies.

However in the New Testament, there is proof beyond doubt that Jesus disapproved of violence. For instance he healed the ear of one of the Roman soldiers, which had been cut of by Peter. He actually told Peter to sheathe his sword and that those who live by the sword, die by the sword

Water-boarding or any harsh form of interrogation at Guantanamo is unjustifiable because based on the circumstances of arrest and detention of the suspected combatants or terrorists contravenes international law and conventions.

Some may disagree with this point of view in respect to the events that lead to the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, many would point out 9-11 as the start and a justification.

Well lets start by examining the case of arrested Afghans and foreign Taliban fighters. It would be an exaggeration to state that US and Allied Forces there are indigenous fighters of Afghanistan because they are also foreigners there. This implies the issue of who has the right to fight in Afghanistan must reside with in the premises of the UN and whatever treatment is applied to prisoners of war or conflict should be resolved by the international body.

In the case of Iraq, everybody is quite aware of the fact that Saddam never had Weapons of Mass Destruction and thy hypothetical reason for attacking this has no grounds. Mathematically, when there is no hypothesis, there exist no reason to move on further with a proof. This implies the presence of foreign troops/fighters (be it Alqaeda/Taliban or Americans/British/ foreign mercenaries) in Iraq has no justification.

Since however the reality is different, then we should note suspected terrorists/insurgents/combatants arrested in Iraq and carted to Guantanamo in all fairness, should first be treated as prisoners of war according to the Geneva Conventions (on the assumption all member nations have agreed to adhere to these rules). As concerns the authenticity of judging them, it is a complicated issue, because the judges are from the victor's party, which had no justifiable reason to invade Iraq in the first place (Remember they (the USA and allies) ignored the UN's objections to attack)

Therefore, I would like to post this hypothetical question to Prince Hamilton? If one day a barge of foreign countries storm into your country, without your consent or vote, get rid of your dictator, as well as arresting some of your relatives, friends, family, even your enemies too because these said persons either participated or aided the bad guys to carry out some terror activities. Then these foreign force carries them away to a faraway island, where they are denied immediate hearing, secluded and portrayed as terrorists(remember by law they are still innocent until proven guilty), would you feel or think these eggs must be broken in order to prepare your delicious omelette, long after the bully(dictator) has been chased out of the household?

facter

As Reex, Flames demonstrates, Jesus was most likely a pacifist, who would not do violence to his fellow man. That is contradistinction to the practices of the Old Testament. In my view, a person who practices or advocates violence is not really a Christian. Martin Luther King was a Christian. In its embrace of pacifism, the Seventh Day Adventists, the Society of Friends, the Tibetan Buddhists and even Mohandas Gandhi, the Hindu are closer to the spirit of Jesus. The injunction of Jesus to love thy neighbor as thine self is not trivial. There are pastors who go around preaching hateful things and violence. In my view, THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS!

Nico

Waterboarding is torture and that is fine by me. These bastards gave us reason torture them after 911 and my only problem is that we fail to acknowledge that we will do anything to safe American lives including torture. These cave dueling rats cutoff peoples heads and we are worried about making them squirm? Eff that. I'm with Cheny on this one.

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