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« Nameless Wreath for Ndeh Ntumazah | Main | Don't even think about it! Humans! »

Thursday, 01 April 2010

Comments

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Etchu Pryde

Even when one disagrees with Njoh Litumbe's arguments, one cannot help but be impressed with the succint, issue-oriented manner in which he makes his acase - a far cry from the approach of zealots on both sides of this explosive debate. I am an unapologetic unitarist but I hear you and I appreciate the fact that you have taken the time to tell us, without insults or anger, your own side of the story.

Louis Egbe Mbua

Mr. Etchu,

At one point you praise objectivity, at another point you portray fanatism. What "unitarism" are you talking about when it is clear that the country is disunited -- from Mola Njoh's clear and substantive arguments? Please, it is fanatism that has caused anger in Southern Cameroons; and unless Southern Cameroons is freed, your "unapologetic unitarist" theory will go up in thick smoke.

Etchu Pryde

Mr. Egbe you are exactly the kind of crazy crackpot "Southern Cameroonian" that I talk about. I believe in a one and indivisible Cameroon with all its flaws, illegalities, oppression, dictatorship, etc. That is my God-given choice. And you believe in a Nivana called Southern Cameroons where "man will be free, where the streets will be paved in gold, where anyone will be able to turn water into wine, where there will be no poverty and democracy shall reign. That too is your god-given right. If you want to challenge my views, then follow Mola Njoh's example and present issues. The same applies to me. Anything else is just pure fanaticism and authoritarianism as you are demostrating here.

You are after a perfect world while I try to fix an imperfect one. Follow your dreams and let me follow mine.

Ma Mary

Mola Njoh. Great job. Your words are like water to people in the desert. Thanks to the internet, they can no longer steal with impunity.

Louis Egbe Mbua

Mr. Etchu,
Sir, Thanks but no thanks for the insults. All I'm saying is that your views will disappear in a smoke. This is a perfectly legitimate argument

I never said you should not have a choice. You are free to believe in fanatism of “one Cameroon unapologetically". What about those who do not believe "unapologetically"? Kill them? Oppress them? Democracy is a two way street and NOT a one way one. The day you decide on one way, you may find yourself at the bottom of a precipice because there would be no where to turn at the end of the cliff. Agreed?

Peppersoup

I am so happy that Mola Njoh Litumbe has lived to clearly enunciate the path of light through the darkness. Someday, Southern Cameroonians will find in him the greatest of the independence generation.
As Etchu correctly says: "one cannot help but be impressed with the succint, issue-oriented manner in which he makes his case." I don't share the tone with which Louis and Etchu are engaging each other. Why can't we the younger generation learn from the example of Nola Njoh Litumbe, to lay clear the issues without any streak of impatience and anxiety? These are the character traits that have been culturally foisted on us, so much so that they have become genetic. Let's be civil, let's dialogue without sniping or slighting one another other - the issue at stake is too crucial for us to debate otherwise. We should recognize Etchu's stance and independence of judgment as being equally rational, and engage with him in a fraternal, reasonable, and respectful way - a way that speaks well of Southern Cameroonians of the ilk of Njoh Mola Litumbe. Let drink from the clear waters of his discourse, tone, and manner.

Pryde

Mr. Mbua,

You are really a stupid fellow. I express my views and then you turn around and ask me if I want to kill those who don't share my views? Where is that coming from? Are you not the one who attacked me? I am big enough to acknowledge the substantive nature of Njoh Litumbe's arguments and also honest enough to state that I disagree with them. Instead of having an issue-oriented discussion you call me a fanatic and now you're talking of murder!!!!

If in the end, my views go up in smoke, then that is my problem not yours. You deal with creating your Southern Cameroons nation and leave me to my "smoke" devices. Isn't that what the democracy that you preach so well is all about???? I am an unapologetic unitarist and you can jump into the nearest lake if that upsets you!

Louis Egbe Mbua

Mr. Etchu,

I asked rhetorical questions in this matter of immense importance. Rhetoric is aimed -- at people to think-- not that what was said in the rhetoric meant that the person implied thus is guilty of the the assumed rhetoric. Are we ready to think forward for all? Another rhetorical question.

Good evening, Mr. Etchu.
Mbua


I will not leave you alone.

Peppersoup

Mr Pryde and Mbua: I think both of you are doing injustice to each other, after going through and discussing a beautiful and uplifting interview. In this forum there have been instances of misunderstandings. Don just reached out to me on a misunderstanding we had yesterday and which led me to reach out to him. Misunderstandings do occur and they are basic to life. The point is what we do with them when they occur. Escalate an uncomfortable situation or reach compromise in a civil way?

Mr. Mbua is not a "stupid fellow" and you are not an "apologetic unitarist" or a "fanatic". Let's leave out these square and unhelpful categories in any discussion.It neither spells well of us to label each other - in fact, it is heart-rendering and collectively unproductive. Let us follow some of the precepts we have grown up listening to: the force of (civil) argument...

And let's dialogue with sufficient knowledge that we are family and that we share common values even if different perspectives. And besides, it's hard for us to judge one another over a few statements.

Again, I repeat, let's take the personal example of Mola Njoh Litumbe. I was worried to find the interviewer a little impatient more than Mola himself.

Louis Egbe Mbua

Mr. Peppersoup,

I am not personal. I think it is time for us to take stock and agree that ideas are different. So, it is important that what one says must be scrutinised. Hiding things without challenging them is wrong.

Etchu Pryde

Mr. Mbua, it is OK to challenge, to prod, to question. And I welcome that. However, when the first response to my comment is to describe me as a fanatic, that is not challenging or questioning; it is launching in an ad hominem attack. So you're angry? Did you see Mola Njoh loose his cool or insult the journalist who was doing everything in the book to get under his skin? We spend so much time blaming Francophones when we have become caricatures of what we hate. So once again, I am a unitarist because I believe in a single, indivisible and federalist Cameroon. If it doesn't happen in my lifetime, that's just fine with me. We can't always get what we want. But I will NEVER be cowed into silence by fringe elements like yourself. There's nothing else to add to this discussion as far as I am concerned.

Peppersoup

You're very correct about not taking it personal, Mr. Mbua, and I think Pryde would agree with you on that point too, and would be open to sharing views with you, to letting you scrutinize his views, and him scrutinizing yours. Let's keep the dialogue going. Let's keep scrutinizing each other, and debating, because at the end of the day, we are faced with a huge predicament that needs resolution, perhaps not for us but for future generations. The tension we're facing points to vexatious nature of this debate that underlines everyone's presence on this forum, a debate we never started, but are obliged to make good. And we will make it good because we care. And we will provoke and bring contrary opinions to the table - scientific discoveries proceed on this same principles, so we cannot leave out differences. I hope Pryde would let go his hurt, particularly as Mr. Mbua has succinctly expressed and I believe him, that he didn't do it on personal terms. However, if you have to convince Pryde, Mr. Mbua, otherwise "not leaving him alone", which I think is good, then you have to really midwife him with sound arguments.

Now that's quite a task, but a worthy one.

Good-evening to you both!

limbekid

My views on the interview:

I am not sure if I got the full interview (parts 2 & 3 absent)

Mola has thoroughly mastered his subject matter, from a historical pespective, but I`m not sure he is in touch with the aspirations of the current generation (Is the man on the street more interested in securing a job, or finding out whether his employer is from Southern Cameroon?)

Would have loved to know from Mola: if he finds no conflict of interest between his position as leader of a political party in unified Cameroon; proponent of Southern Cameroon autonomy; and representative of the Bakweri Land Claims Committee?

njimaforboy

The aspirations of the current Southern Cameroon generation is freedom from the oppressive regime of La Republique. U are the one that has not only lost touch of the current generation, but has lost touch with reality.

The man on the street certainly knows he doesn't have a job because of La Republique and the failed policies of Paul Biya.

Why don't u read the full interview before spilling vomitus?

Peppersoup

Limbekid, you've just brought out one of the things I thought about earlier and which made me see the dilemma that Mola must have found himself in. If you read his words between the lines, you will find that he's been conflicted between leading a party and being a proponent of Southern Cameroon "autonomy". He says at the beginning that the role of his party the LDP? is to educate citizens about their rights; and that he formed the party in a bid to obtain political power; he emphasizes several times that he wants to live with people of La Republique just as with the "Congolese", "British", "Chinese", etc, etc, meaning as one country naturally would with others that are self-governing and respectful of each others' rights and "autonomy"/sovereignty. I hope you get the point! I think he makes that sufficiently clear in the interviews. He states that the objective of his party was and has been to press for recognition of the illegal annexation of Southern Cameroon, which led me to understand that his constitution of the party is only a tactic in an overall strategy to wrest Southern Cameroon out of its oppressive annexation and tyranny. It's a brilliant and logical argument, but a link that will raise questions. I understand his reluctance to for avoiding a full engagement of the Southern Cameroon issue as it is, and having prefered to use a party legalized by La Republique. Most would suggest that Mola better transform that party into a movement or pressure front. Overall, he more than adequately accounts for what happened in the past. Better still, he lays a very strong case for Southern Cameroon to seek for its own legality and sovereignty. Limbekid, I strongly urge you to go back and drink from that interview. I watched it once while cooking, so I did not get it fully. I have listened to politicians in Cameroon give interviews, but this one is different. It's a logically convincing and level-headed performance. For one thing, having confronted policemen and soldiers as a citizen for a long time in La Republique and been subjected to the rants of our own politicians and activists, I am no longer willing to listen to someone who lacks self-control or self-restraint. The more overwhelming the odds Obama faced a year ago - the more you saw his self-restraint in laying his case. Mola's performance in that interview is a perfect example of someone who masters his facts and has respect for people. If you don't show restraint in whatever you do, how can one be sure you'll show restraint when it comes to governing people? We've been subjected to sorts of torture by police and military forces at one time or the other in our lives and none of us wants this sort of thing to go on forever. I think impatience, the lack of restraint, the rush to conclusions with all the negative consequences that these entail have become a huge factor in our "genetic" constitution. So one's not just looking for the "autonomy" or liberation of Southern Cameroons from oppression but for a new dispensation underlined by trust, deliberation, human rights, and all that. I wish Mola a long life, so we can learn from his knowledge and attitude. Now as for the Bakweri Lands Committee, I can't make a statement about Mola's stand on that since I'm not fully aware of the details of the case. I know there's a website for it, but I need to go at length into the case. Hopefully I am reading about German plantations in Southern Cameroon, land restitution and property rights, and should be able to bring all three together in due time. The Bakweri have a very strong case that should have resonated with much of Southern Cameroons. (And again, you see how La republique has altered our feelings and concerns). I'm not aware of how they Bakweri have pursued this case but one thing I know for sure, is that if they link their case with environmental conservation or protection as they have done with the Mountain, the dynamics of the case will change very fast. The environmental conservation bodies in Europe and the US are some of the strongest lobbies and movers you'll find in the world, thus partners that land claims organizations cannot fail not to use if they wish to succeed. Again, Limbekid, the appellation "Land Claims" is a troubling one to many organizations or institutions. Switch it into something about conservation and you have more ears because conservation and protection ate considered as global facts, and which can best be presided over by European and American institutions. Let's use power when we find it fit!

DANGO  TUMMA

there is nothing new here, its the same old story, S TRONG MAN WITH WEAPONS, RUSHED INTO ANOTHER MANS COUNTRY AND OCCUPIES. AND THIS INVADERS STAYS FOR 47 YRS, AND WANTS THE WORLD TO BELIEVE THAT SOME HOW THIS NEIGBORING COUNTRY IS ITS PROVINCE, ITS REGION, OR A PART OF ITS,
NOW, SURELY YOU ARE GOING TO FIND SOME SCUM HEADS IN THIS WORLD WHO WILL BELIEF THIS INVADERS STORY. (LIKE ETCHU,, OF ONE KAMERUN) AND REASONABLE JUST PEOPLE LIKE LOUIS MBUA AND MOLA NJOH . WHO WILL SAY THE FACTS AND SEEK THAT THE INVADER, PACK
HIS INSTRUMENTS OF DEATH AND GO BACK HOME.
CALL IT INDEPENDENCE OR WHAT, ALL WHAT THE WORLD KNOWS IS WITHOUT CAMEROUN UNDER AHIJO, ARMY INVASSION, SOUTHERN CAMEROONS WOULD BE IN PEACE AND AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY TODAY.

Hycintha Takang

Great job Mola.

Manga

It is a shame that when we read an article or listen to an interview, we deviate from the core of the matter and rush into conclusions and express sentiments and pour vernom at each other.
We do not have to be rocket scientists to understand the point Mola litumbe is making. He and myslef are happy to leave with our brothers on a legitimate and clear union. If the "union" we are living in now was not in accordance with the United Nations Charter, then let both sides come together, and make the union legal. That is the point Mola is making.
Marriage which Mola refered to, is a vivid example to describe his position and the so-called anglophone Problem. Before either party sue for a divorce, the court first of all has to determine if they were married in the first place. If Southern Cameroon claims that there was no official union of the two territories, then it is for La Republic Du Cameroun to produce documentary evidence that there is actually a legal union in accordance with the UN Charter. Instead of questioning Mola, and asking irrelevant questions as the journalist did, I believe the Southern Cameroonians and Mola would be proven wrong, if La republic can present the "official document that brought this union into being, and which the Southern Cameroonians claim does not exist. until La Republic proves the southern Cameroonians otherwise, one would not help but to think that the Southern Cameroonian claim is legitimate.

limbekid

Thanks for posting parts 2 & 3 of the interview. At least now we get a fuller picture.

Slightly disappointed with the journalist, but he vindicates himself by evoking (in part 2) an issue which has always bugged me, ie the obssession with substance over form. Is the REAL relationship between the two entities simply as defined by pieces of paper drafted by former colonial masters? In other words, to paraphrase Mola: If I had a relationship with your daughter, which was never sanctioned by the customary formalities, would you discount any children thereof, in the event of discord?

DANGO TUMMA

mola would be asking for a legal document in another 50 yrs from now, just as. france would had been asking nazi germany for a legal doc to occupy it. if the nazis were not gunned down and chased away, Thats the same solution we need, we need to force them out by shipping in weapons, big guns on millions and mecenaries, to wipe theses ewonoos and betis french adventureers once and for all , we must learn to take back by force not just cheap talk.

supra shoes

Them clothes got laundry numbers on them. You remember your number and always wear the ones that has your number. Any man forgets his number spends a night in the box. These here spoons you keep with you. Any man loses his spoon spends a night in the box.

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