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Sunday, 30 January 2011

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Mj

We are still divided that's why we haven't achieved independence.I wish all the tribes of Ambazonia unite to face our current predicament.

Va Boy

We should all support the Bakweri struggle. Where do we contribute?

Mbet

Yes, we should. I am not sure that people are aware of this. So please spread the word. It is not just a Bakweri problem; it is the struggle of Anglophone Cameroon to uphold its land, culture and values in this strange union that it was wrongfully forced into.

limbekid

I thought we were progressively drifting away from the allogene/autochtone dichotomy.

I wonder if Bakwerians resident in the USA pay hommage to Cherokees and Sioux, for right of abode. History is a continuum and every piece of land (save the uninhabited)is/was once tribal land. Bakwerians may be consulted on issues such as environmental pollution, desecration of sacred ground, major developmental projects, freedom to practice and promote their culture, allocation of compensation...but this should never be construed as ownership. Land is state-owned with good reason: for the freedom to undertake communal projects: airports, schools, roads, telecoms infrastructure, plantation agriculture...

To re-quote Achille Mbembe, (curtesy of Dibussi Tande), "Civil society organisations are often weak because they are divided along ethnic lines..."

The current generation should eschew tribal politics and stick to universalisms: corruptiion, freedom of information, government accountability, improvement of education, electoral transparency...

Louis Egbe Mbua

Sir Limbekid,

It is this kind of very bad ideas that caused the Zimbabwe/Palestinian land problem. According to the racist White regime at the time, they owned the entire Zimbabwe land; and thus the native blacks had no right to it. And for you to quote the American Indians is another case of propagating oppression/fascism. These peoples were killed, murdered in genocide because of their land. And here you are almost making mockery of genocide of a people.

Are you saying the German colonial government was right to murder the Bakweris and seize the land since the “German government owned the land”? And are you in the same boat as the corrupt and notoriously kleptocratic Biya regime which steals even from the treasury? Now, how would you feel if the Biya Mafia enters into your private/family land and start selling it. Surely, it is government land? Now, you must differentiate between ancestral land and state lands. Before there was Cameroon, there were the Bakweris, Balondos, Ewondos etc. Before America, there were the Indians. You would do yourself a great service if you desist from insulting the intelligence of the audience with this "government land".

I keep wondering on the mentality of some "educated" Cameroonians: are they honest?
This has nothing to do with politics but justice; and upholding the law. As it stands it appears most Cameroonian intellectuals take the side of lawlessness; justifying corrupt practices, land racket and other terrible crimes in the name of “Cameroonianess”. This must be denounced with all force.

NB: Possibly you can offer the Bakweris land in your village after all the land has been distributed. Will you? Ans I wonder why Paul Biya does not distribute his own lands and that of his own people in the South in the name of Cameroonianess.

Va Boy

limbekid has all the kiss la republique ass characteristics of the famous Dr Ernest Molua.

limbekid

@ Dr Egbe Mbua,

First of all I am happy with your rejoinder (I would rather you disagree with me than stay silent).

For the purpose of this reply, I would like to state that I was born in Limbe (Victoria), to a Bakweri mum and a Bafut father, so I have a foot on either aisle of this debate.

Like I said, history is a continuum, it is a dynamic process which is constantly changing and not stuck in time. The Bakwerians are custodians of a shared culture and history and this is not limited to land tenure. The Amerindians were once the inhabitants of present day USA, the same way the Aborigines were the original inhabitants of Australia. That both ethnic groups were almost wiped of the face of the earth is a historical reality and acknowledging this fact is not an endorsement of genocide.

When land was seized from white settlers in Zimbabwe it was seized by the government in place, not by tribal concerns. Whether I agree with the process or not, is immaterial. The fact remains that it is the prerogative of government to redistribute land, whether such a government acedes to power through vile means is not the issue in question.

With the cosmopolitanization comes transmutations in demography: Buea was once the capital of Southern Cameroons; it hosts a university; huge chunks of a major employer (CDC) are found on Bakweri land; Ombe hosts the only industrial zone in the South West. With such infrastructure it was inevitable that at some point in history the Bakwerians would be a minority in their own homeland, but this is not unique to the Bakweris. The Dualas have had to suffer the same fate, to accomodate a commercial capital, same way the original inhabitants of Ongola (Yaounde) have had to sacrifice their hegemony, to host the administrative capital. We cannot clamour for development without making sacrifices.

Like I said before, the Bakweris are free to request the right of consultation over land tenure issues, environmental issues, desecration of sacred land etc, but I don`t think it is the prerogative of tribal pressure groups to define the legality/illegality of land tenure.

Louis Egbe Mbua

Sir Limbekid,

What you are saying is an outrage; whether you are Bakweri or not does not make you right. Nobody refuses your stake. In fact nobody refuses any Cameroonian the right to settle. Have you ever heard any Bakweri question a University being built or for people to settle in Bakweri land? The point is settling rightly in accordance with the law.

Going around saying a racist government was right to seize lands from the natives in Zimbabwe; or dismissing the tragic American Indian genocide is an indictment on historical amnesia in tyranny. Go tell the American Indians what you have just written. That they now tolerate does NOT make what happened right. What happened was tyranny and this can never be justified. According to your logic Hitler was right to kill all ethnic Slovaks so as to occupy their land as long as he was head of a government! And that we should endorse Hitler today if he succeeded! Correct?


And to your amazement, the North American indigenes have a human right to seek compensation for what happened AND to reclaim unsettled native lands – This has already happened in America. That is called human rights and it is NOT determined by dictatorial and corrupt governments.

If you read the Press release, it is based on INTERNATIONAL AND NATIONAL LAWS. And to believe that ancient laws of tribes/groups no longer hold is to display support for oppressive regimes that believe that natives are sub humans who had no intelligence to have crafted their own customary laws. This is totally unacceptable as in all tribal places there are land, marriage, criminal and financial laws. You cannot apply one law, while rejecting another. Ignoring these factors is a recipe for conflict. Paul Biya has been told this clearly by the African Commission. But as in Cameroon, people prefer lawlessness rather than law.

You may as well claim that the international community is wrong while you and Paul Biya are right. Well, the end will prove who is right or wrong.

You have just seen how dictators and tyrants have been chased out the world over.

limbekid

Dr Mbua,

You consistently misrepresent me (wilfully or otherwise). Recognition of atrocities in history cannot be construed as endorsement. These are mere facts of history.

I am simply contesting your logic from a universal perspective, and I am surprised that you, a non-native resident of a foreign country, fails to recognise that. How would you appreciate if a native English person questioned your right of abode in his native land. Here is a quote from the BLCC communique "Any non-native who wishes to purchase or receive such land in Fako can apply for such a lease. Acceptance will be subject to intense scrutiny by the BLCC". What about the natives, are they exempt from such scrutiny? Parts of present-day Soho in London, used to be hunting grounds for King Henry VIII. Today that part of the world is unrecognisable, thanks to urbanisation.

The history of man is fraught with mass migrations. Fako is a reference point in the history of the Bakwerians, the same way Africa is a reference point for African-Americans. It is the spiritual homeland, but not a guarantee of exclusive residence.

If any portion of Fako was attacked by a foreign force the resposibility of defence will be borne by the national territorial army, and that is one reason why the state is the final abiter.

Replacing the state with a tribal concern, only replaces one cognitive bias (based on political affiliations) with another (based on tribal recognition). There is no guarantee of fairness.

Louis Egbe Mbua

Dear Sir Limbekid,

Inference can only be adduced in a view mind-stamped -- in your case. The recorded history of man is less than 10,000 years old. Thus, it is easier to learn civilised eternity than 1 million years of inconsistency; and folly.

Soho! Sloane Square! Eaton Square! Sasse, Bambili! Africans have been there!

Soho could have been a marsh land in 1500, same with Oxford Street -- Buea a forest. Sorry, Soho is owned by indigenous Englanders. Know today.

A state only represents the people as long as they agree; and people are people. Those who believe tribal peoples are sub humans will become sub humans themselves because tribes make families, families create communities; and that communities make nations. The universe is a cluster of communities. To believe otherwise is an adventure into wild imaginings.

The Cameroon”law”: is that the present BIYA regime, in Cameroon, and its other thieves, dwell on theft – land, money. We will NEVER accept thievery and tyranny. THIS IS THE NEW LAW.

Talk to us about defence -- a joke -- They kill students who protest in Yaounde, Buea, Bamenda and Kumba, Mbanga because these people question the regime on its LEGITIMACY and LEGACY. THE BIYA RIGIME HAS BEEN WEIGHED IN THE BALANCES AND FOUND WANTING. The REGIME buys weapons to seize lands, silence those who question their nefarious motives. . Those days are gone. The days when corrupt men oppress the people; steal lands and money -- are gone. Understand and see the moment.

You cannot overcome natural laws of humans because it is universal in the universe -- the world in particular.

THE PRESENT CAMEROON REGIME IS A MONUMENTAL FRAUD IN THIS CA

TEBOH ACHO

who can pronounce the word ethnic or tribe in the african laguage he or she speaks?

Mallam Shehu

To damn hell with all this land and abuse bullshit. As Cameroonian, must I have a feeling of culpability or be subjected to paying rents for owning a piece of land in Bakweri-land, even though I am not a Bakwerian? This is the silliest of bullshit ever heard.

Cameroon belongs to all Cameroonians, without any exception. Most of these clowns wanting to reclaim their land are all owners of land in other places: at home or abroad.

If I were president, and you god-damn hypocrites dare create such a tribalistic organisation, you would all be arrested and all your doomed asses would be laid to rot in jail. Bunch of divisive and retro-intellectuals!

Louis Egbe Mbua


Dear Mr. Mallam Shehu,

I hope you are not from Northern Nigeria; and the son of Shehu Shagari of Nigeria, former President. That organisation, The BLCC is 120 years old, and preceded your admired "Cameroon". And it has fought and defeated the German colonialists. And it will defeat all other neo-colonialists in Cameroon and from Nigeria including You, Mallam.

When Shehu Shagari took over in Nigeria, he didn't kill the Ogoni's because they agitated for the destruction of their ancestral land, did he? Now, it is wise for you to follow his good example before you get a taste of the bitter Bakweri Medicine with your bigotry. Ask the colonial Germans; and your hero and totalitarian tyrant, PAUL BIYA, and other advocates of genocide.

Mbua

Mallam Shehu

Oga Mbua,

We're living in a world that is gently transforming itself into a little village for all of humanity. Do you think I have no village in Cameroon where I can also advocate for such a tribalistic utopia? It is high time we take a triple leap forward, faraway from our illiterate ancestors' silhouettes and accommodate ourselves into the new and changing world.

We're all Cameroonians, and any piece of land in Cameroon, belongs to all the sons and daughters of Cameroon. Go away with your land claims and think out something new that can benefit all Cameroonians. I hate selfishness and egocentricity in all matters pertaining to being as one nation.

When shall we ever be peacefully united? Are we cursed or what? Shall a child from Eyoumojok ever feel at home in Mora, or shall a child from Yokadouma ever feel at home in Ekondo Titi. What the hell are we erecting with this land nonsense?

North Africans are making history, here we are demanding reparations for land. If I had the means, I would dig the whole of that your Bakweri land and throw all of you guys inside the abyss that shall be left behind. Bullshit!

Louis Egbe Mbua

Dear Mr. Mallam,

Surely, you must be upset that I mentioned your tribesman, Adji Abdoulaye HAMAN who signed a FASCIST ORDER. Take heart. We are not against YOU MALLAM, Shehu or any person but against a totalitarian system which has hijacked our rights and the rights of all Cameroon. We are against agents of theft; and if your tribesman is part of it, so be it. Stop this bigotry.

I have advised you to go and read the history of Cameroon. When you must have read it, you will know who opposed colonialism.

Listen, Mr. Mallam Shehu: before the White people sat down in Berlin (1885) to carve up Africa and "Cameroon", there were African nations who fought back. BLCC was one of those organisations in the 1800s. Vex and die!

Not every person has a colonised mind or believes in the present colonised mind of Cameroon. To have a colonised mind is a choice. You may have it, bot we don't. So tell your man DICTATOR PAUL BIYA, that the 120 year old war (Have you ever fought a 100 years’ war? Stop making noise here!) against the Bakweris will be won by the Bakweri, the Cameroon people, and as a result for freedom of all Cameroonians .

THE RIGHTS OF MAN CAN NEVER BE USURPED BY AGENTS OF A TYRANT AND ADVOCATES OF GENOCIDE.

We will WIN, your genocide and racist views notwithstanding.

I hope you follow the good views of your father Shehu Shagari, the former Nigerian President, who never attacked the Ogoni people. Your views are NOT in line with the former Nigerian President.

Mallam Shehu

Dr. Mbua,

go ahead with your reparation stuff, and forget about M. Shehu. I hope you guys will not extend your next demands to the Bomaka area, I can see you guys gently coming. I was witness to the barbaric way in which some Cameroonian land owners there, were fatally wounded with machetes by indigenous people. For your info, I grew up in Molyko, I know what I am talking about.

NB: If you guys are really sincere, while negotiating, ask those big companies to pay you in kind(hospitals and schools) and not in cash. I'll believe you guys.

Planetarycare

Navigating land restitution claims is always a fraught enterprise. It requires careful study, analysis of the ecology and history of the land from diverse perspectives, the history of the claim(s) and diversity of stakeholder interests including questions of private and public good, before looking at existing options deriving from stakeholders interests. There are various models for understanding and resolving land restitution claims, though each case in the end is a variation depending firstly on how the issues are defined, secondly, on stakeholder strengths (which include local, national, and international networks) and thirdly, on existing state laws. As a whole, institutions are generally uncomfortable with land claims and social justice. For a while I thought of the Bakweri Land Claims issue, but I need time to examine it analytically to be able to make tenable recommendations. The Makuleke Land Claim issue which I examine in the rough essay below might throw light on the role of pragmatism and networking for land claimants.

Louis Egbe Mbua

Dear Mr. Mallam,

We are for peaceful settlement.

On the other hand, we will fight; and perfectly capable.

If you use barbarism in your village, we do not do that. Violence is not our way. However, we have the CAPABILY to defend our self and to DRIVE you out on grounds of your barbarism, similar to GONOCIDE against the indigenous.

So, it is a free world -- do what you think and what you are told. But we will meet you squarely, Mr MALLAM. We have done this for MORE than 100 years. We will continue to do it for EVER.

You have a choice to compromise;

OR

Face the ancient Bakweri Medicine -- I have tasted it: very bitter. So make your choice, Mallam Shehu.

If I were you I will be very frightened and give up-- throw my hands in the air.

Why would a reasonable man try to fight a man who has been fighting for a century?

I feel sorry for you; because you think like a one day old baby -- fighting his big brother who wants to bring him to freedom.

My advice: do not fight with human rights people, especially those who know you can't sustain a fight for 100 years.

Mbua

Mallam Shehu

Dr. Mbua,

I am not fighting with anybody, all I am saying, let Cameroon be for all Cameroonians. All this regional stuff is nothing but a form of racism you are accusing me of practising.

Like limbekid hinted, should fako be attacked by a foreign force, she would be defended with the very last strength by our Cameroonian army, all the so-called sons of the soil would all dock their tails and vamoose overnight.

In lieu of promoting such an enterprise, I'll rather dedicate myself at the services of the handicapped and less-privileged in the whole of Cameroon, and fight for their rights.

Fighting for the rights of vain things that belongs to none of us, is simply a fritter away of the intellect.

Do you by chance know who owned that land before our ancestors migrated there? It is none of your business, isn't it?

You see Dr. Mbua, we all met all those vain things on earth, and we shall eventually all melt out, but those same vain things shall still stand and flout our stupidity in daring to claim ownership over them, they own us.

NB:
I'll never be against the requesting of some sort of compensation(taking back) from BIG COMPANIES that illegally acquired any piece of land that belongs to a nation. In as much as those demands are for the benefits of all citizens, no beef with it. But to extend these same demands to mere citizens, and/or watch some personal interest-oriented elites abuse a legitimate and national claim, I say no Sir.
I guess you are well-versed on what happened in the Bomaka area after the CDC handed that strip of land to our elites.

Louis Egbe Mbua

A state constitutes:

1. Legislature

2. Judiciary

3. Executive/Military

All are supposed to be independent – not in Cameroon where the President is all three. The army defends the nation. It derives its revenues from the people who therefore have the right to be defended. Agreed? Good. So what is this talk about Bakweris being defended? Does that substitute for land rights?

The judiciary executes laws. The BLCC's case is grounded on human rights laws. This has nothing to do with defence. Defence or no defence the law must be applied. If you do not like the present national and international laws, you can try to change it. In this case, you would have to show proof that humans and minorities have no land rights where they live; and where they consider an ancestral home. I will repeat that before there was Cameroon, nations exist in that territory complete with their various boundaries which still exist and are respected to this day. To discount this is a grave error as this can lead to conflicts. Even in the UK, this is never discounted.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Your Bomaka story is untrue. People live there in peace. I know because I live there. Have a very good day.

Mallam Shehu

Doc,

the simple truth about Bomaka you are somehow trying your utmost to obfuscate is that, 10mins after that land was handed over to the elites, it was all sold out within the blink of an eye. Only to come back a few months later to violently ask for more money for plots that had previously and legally been sold out by the same beneficiaries.

I am no conjurer, but I am pretty sure, should such an allocation of land to elites happen again, it would be the same scenario. Why all the pain for something that will be sold out seconds after? Is it really worth it to use ancestral ties to a land as a shield for personal gratification? Aren't we mocking our own very selves?

Louis Egbe Mbua


Mallam Shehu,

I believe you are now getting to the point which we are stressing. Those lands cannot be given to any "elite" because it is communal native land by law. Any CDC lands in Fako division were seized by HGerman Colonial Governor Jesko von Puttkamer and an in law to Von Bismarck. Please read, ''Kingdom on Mount Cameroon: Studies of the History of the Cameroon, 1500–1970'' by Edwin Ardener. The entire Bakweri population was displaced after the war with the Germans and Buea was burned down. For instance the original location of Bondongo was where the Prime Minister's Lodge (Puttkamer's Palace). Reserves were created to confine the "very powerful Bakweris". Others ran away from Buea and relocated in Soppo. Some escaped to Victoria. Germans expropriated the lands. The Cameroon government must negotiate amicably with the BLCC. This is the international law. They cannot be distributing lands to people who have no titles to these lands and who are evidently poor.

So, mon frere that is why there this argument and fight. I'm afraid we will never surrender.

Mbua

Atih Ngo

What a sham! I've said this time and again that the more we spend time in the West, the more we deceive ourselves that we know much about Cameroon. Here is an individual that at one point, you would imagine that he is nationalistic from the insults he heaps on Biya and his entourage. But then on this same forum, he brings out his true colors: Bakweri lands! He cites international land on lands that for years Cameroonians have bought and settled on them. I can only imagine that by bringing up an issue of this nature, we want Cameroonians to return to their individual villages.

Louis Egbe Mbua

Nope Mr. Atih. I do not know what you mean by "nationalist". I did not invent the problem. The problem was endored by the African Union. As I ahve said, if you cannot follow simple law, why should Paul Biya leave!

Please take some time and read around the problem. It is a national problem of immense importance because Cameroon's economy is tied to the CDC. Are we understanding here? So go back and read the origins of the CDC; and its influence on Cameroon -- socially, politically and economically; and how the CDC came about, who originally owned those palntations and how many people died, lost their livelihood before they established. All you think is your village! What about those who lost their villages for you to settle! They have no LAND rights? Do you have more rights than them?

Please go and READ before coming to debate.

Elemite

The BLCC Archives for complete information http://www.blccarchives.org/

Elemite

Bakweri collective rights are as important as individual rights. It is possible to be for collective rights, individual rights and national rights at the same time. They are interwoven, and an intelligent person can perceive how they interweave. This is addressed to Atih Ngo. I am pretty sure that if there were whole sale expropriation of lands in his village, Atih Ngo would be outraged, and I would understand his outrage and not style him a tribalist.

dango  tumma

THE solution ispure and simple,
Let cameroun packandleave southern cameroons
then CDC AND allother lands will return to their rightful owners.
after all cameroun is in southern cameroons not by any logic but by military and theft.

John Dinga

Ladies, Gentlemen, Fellow Citizens, Time Out!Take a deep breath and a few steps backward.

It serves no useful purpose sitting behind a computer screen to burn all this energy over a matter that needs other tools to resolve.

While I can understand the amount of passion behind these exchanges, I have no doubt that some times we lose sight of the fact that there are other sides to our very pressing problem. We need to reflect a little and ask ourselves if we are well armed for the battle we are declaring.

It may sound like a digression but let me offer this anecdote for your reflection. I was eye witness in Kumba, Meme Division, to a sad incident in which someone sold land, got money and sent his child for studies abroad. Upon returning home after studies, the educated child went straight after the buyer and said his father had been cheated of his land.

What would any of you do in such a situation?

Coach Carryalls Bags

exaggerates a man´;s virtue, an enemy his crimes.

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